Generous "Local" Prize Money at NYC Marathon

Mr. Monti,

What are your thoughts on what the Twin Cities Marathon is doing in regards to the American-only prize money?

In no way would I be advocating this is what NYC should do, because I love racing the world's best athletes and I believe that USA-only prize money would obviously not bring the world's best, but could you provide what is provided by ING NYC for the top American finishers, including the Alberto Salazar award (any money that goes along with that)?

Thank you and continue your great job with one of the world's most prestigious races. I am glad that race directors realize that even American runners will work 3-6 months hard for a marathon and that marathon day is payday in more than one sense of the word: hopefully a PR and perhaps some reward earned for the work performed on your course.

Best wishes. Also, one final note: when is it best for a national-class American to get in touch with you if he/she is interested in making the NYC Marathon the focus of the year to see if there would be any assistance?

Thank you.

David, I'm running NYC. I live in Eugene so if I join the Road Runners Club and pay for six entry fees but don't run the races am I still eligible for the marathon prize money?

The NYRRC should really be applauded for this prize money. Five grand is a lot of money for a 2:28 marathon and $2000 for a 3:03. This is something good local runners can really shoot for.

I assume David's at Franklin Feild, so...

- You have to actually complete 6 "scored" races. More info on what constitutes "scored" is available at nyrr.org, as is a list of eligible races.

- Though there are no specific awards reserved for American runners, "amounts will be doubled for U.S. finishers" -- so if some "Deena Doe" from California wins, she'd get paid twice as much as some "Paula Poe" from the UK would for the win.

With the Twin Cities Marathon going all-U.S. this year, and Chicago offering some dedicated prize money for U.S. citizens, U.S. athletes have some great choices in a fall marathon this year. That's great news.

Both of these races, along with the ING New York City Marathon, are very different and would offer a U.S. athlete a completely different competitive experience. No race format is right for every athlete.

The New York Road Runners has made a serious commitment to supporting U.S. athletes, and we've demonstrated that through our U.S. Men's 8-K Championships ($20,000 in U.S.-only prize money annually plus bonuses for three years running), and by aggressively recruiting Americans to run the ING New York City Marathon and providing a world class competitive experience.

While TCM and Chicago provide listed prizes for Americans (the NYCM does, too, in the doubling of top-10 prize money for U.S. citizens), the NYCM works with U.S. athletes on a case-by-case basis, formulating individual compensation plans which suit an athlete's goals and abilities. I try to set things up so that an athlete who prepares well and performs well vs. his or her own potential and goals will make a suitable payday. That's why I spend so much time at competitions, so I can learn what each athlete is trying to achieve.

Now is an excellent time for elite Americans to inquire with me about what might be available for them at this year's NYC Marathon. I carefully evaluate each athlete, and personally answer every request for assistance.

David Monti

Elite Athlete Coordinator

ING New York City Marathon

dmonti@attg.net

Let's assume for a second that you're all gung ho about this idea (which I think helping American distance runners in anyway is a great idea) and you decide to take David's offer. You train your butt off all summer and fall and you're previous best marathon is 2:34 (not a world record by any means but definitely capable of reaching those times listed).

Now you show up on race day all pumped and ready to win 1000's because you're in the best shape of your life. As you walk to the starting line you suddenly enter your worst nightmare. 1000's of police officers, firefighters, EMTs, etc. are in front of you and they have no intention of running sub 2:30 or even sub 4:30 for that matter. The first mile is a fight to get past each and every one of these walking/jogging men and women. You lose at least :30 and up to a minute and the rest of your race is spent wondering, Why would they set a race up like this? Well that was my experience last Fall although I wasn't eligible for the NYRR awards.

My question to David: Can you assure all eligible runners (let's say sub 2:40 men / sub 3:10 women) a starting position behind the elites? From what I understand Chicago and Boston work in this fashion. Why can't NYC do the same?

I don't think there are a lot of police officers in front of the local elite/club start. From what I've heard if you really can run around 2:30 you won't have to run through a ton of slower runners, they might even put you right behind the true elites.

Regarding potential starting delays at the beginning of the 2003 NYC Marathon, I can offer the following analysis where the New York Road Runners quantified the starting "delays" by start (Blue is upper level, Green is lower). The "delay" is the difference between net times and gun (official) times.

As you can see, the worst delay experienced by any runner who broke 2:45:30 was 37 seconds, and on average it was much smaller, just 11 seconds for runners sub-2:40:26 on the blue start.

Blue Start:

# of

Gun Time Range Runners Average Delay Longest Delay

2:10:30 - 2:20:12 21 0 seconds 0 seconds

2:21:22 - 2:30:47 21* 2 seconds 15 seconds

2:31:03 - 2:40:26 31 11 seconds 24 seconds

2:40:34 - 2:45:30 32 15 seconds 37 seconds

Green Start:

# of

Gun Time Range Runners Average Delay Longest Delay

2:29:40 - 2:45:10 9* 10 seconds 21 seconds

2:45:41 - 2:50:05 9 7 seconds 14 seconds

______________

*Chris Charles started on Blue even though he was registered for Green, and was re-classified

Still, we are working harder to make sure that these delays are reduced even further.

David Monti

Elite Athlte Coordinator

ING New York City Marathon

dmonti@attg.net

I'm glad you're trying to improve the start for the 2:30-2:45 guys but your use of average chip-gun time disrepencies is misleading because a 15 second delay could easily mean 1000-2000 slower people in front of you that you've got to pass, which takes a lot of energy. There are only about 150 guys who ran 2:45 last year, why can't you put anyone who's run 2:45 (and the equivalent women's time) (and who validates it by sending a web link/copy of the results) to the very front of their section or right behind the real elite guys. I hate to see it, but I know too many people who say they will never run NY again.

The list of last year's top 5 does not tell the whole story. Last year was by far the slowest for the local race in ages.

Well-known reasons: warm weather & Olympic trials. Some top local runners were either resting after running a qualifying time in Chicago 3 weeks earlier or training for the trials having qualified in the spring.

Not so well-known reason: 3rd place and 6th place local won a grueling half marathon ($5000 each) just 5 days before NYCM, which certainly slowed them down in the marathon.

I have a few years results on hand. The 1st place times for men/women are 2:15~2:23/2:40~2:43 from 1998~2001.

David, thank you for your efforts. I don't think it takes much tinkering, or thought. Set the Blue Start similar to the "competitive" and "preferred" corrals in Chicago. I heard no complaints from anyone in Chicago, including runners ineligible for the closer corrals. The elite runners (2:45 sounds fine based on recent results) get top billing.

NY has lost relevance among the 2:20 to 3:00 American runners. This demographic is the backbone of the start who spend way more than they receive to support their hobby. It puzzles me why NYC doesn't court this audience in the manner that Chicago does.

The FDNY and NYPD can get the Green Start. Unless, they have qualified runners in the "competitive" or "preferred" corrals.

whole story wrote:

The list of last year's top 5 does not tell the whole story. Last year was by far the slowest for the local race in ages.

In the name of full disclosure, here are the times which won NYRR Member Awards at the ING New York City Marathon from 2000 to 2002 (three races). I already provided the 2003 results. Remember, these athletes had to be NYRR members for at least 6 months AND finish 6 fully scored NYRR races prior to the marathon. Some athletes missed out because they didn't fulfull the requirements:

2002:

MEN -

1. Philippe Rolly, 2:26:17, $5000

2. Rafael Veras Luna, 2:28:05, $4000

3. Jorge Eliecer Real, 2:28:39, $3000

4. Hamid Boujlid, 2:31:07, $2000

5. Esteban Vanegas, 2:32:40, $1000

Found Ineligible: Kassahun Kabiso (2:23:28): joined NYRR on 5/9/2002, 4 days short of the six months required to be eligible for Member Awards. Juan Jaramillo (2:26:53): only ran 3 NYRR races. Arsenio Ortiz (2:27:58): NYRR membership expired 9/2002 and has not re-joined. Zoran Bursac (2:31:24): ran no NYRR races.

WOMEN -

1. Carol Howe, 2:38:37, $5000 + $1000 time bonus

2. Janina Malska, 2:45:42, $4000

3. Alayne Adams, 2:51:18, $3000

4. Doris Correa, 2:52:55, $2000

5. Gordon Bakoulis, 2:54:42, $1000

Found Ineligible: Julia Stamps (2:54:47): joined NYRR on 6/29/2003, ran no NYRR races. Nnenna Lynch (2:55:15) ran only 3 NYRR races. Tania Belisle-Leclerc (2:58:27) ran no NYRR races. Stefani Jackenthal (3:00:02): ran no NYRR races.

2001:

MEN -

1. Brian Clas, 2:22:30, $5000

2. Arsenio Ortiz, 2:22:53, $4000

3. Joe Mcveigh, 2:26:29, $3000

4. Charles Kelly, 2:29:54, $2000

5. Rafael Veras Luna, 2:30:41, $1000

WOMEN -

1. Gordon Bakoulis, 2:41:43, $5000

2. Leteyesus Berhe, 2:43:00, $4000

3. Gillian Horovitz, 2:50:12, $3000

4. Margaret Angell, 2:51:50, $2000

5. Angela Schwan, 2:52:37, $1000

2000:

MEN -

1. Fouzi Aloui, 2:23:36, $5000

2. Srba Nikolic, 2:24:11, $4000

3. Arsenio Ortiz, 2:25:26, $3000

4. Toby Tanser, 2:26:57, $2000

5. Nelson Rocha, 2:28:19, $1000

WOMEN -

1. Zofia Wieciorkowska, 2:43:09, $5000

2. Gordon Bakoulis, 2:45:17, $4000

3. Kari Anne Bertrand, 2:47:45, $3000

4. Gillian Horovitz, 2:48:17, $2000

5. Kim Griffin, 2:51:02, $1000

David Monti

Elite Athlete Coordinator

ING New York City Marathon