Is Webb's fallout an indication that STRENGTH does not equal SPEED

I think your stupid thinking either way if you expect big results after only sticking with a program for a year

analyzing a broken situation wrote:

Thoughts?

I think you're fvcking idiot.

Works for a lot of high school runners...

Coaching mid-distance is finding the right combination of intervals, repetition runs, tempo runs, long runs, recovery runs as well as plyometrics and weight training.

Whatever combination Salazar had Webb do, Alan obviously was comfortable with how his body was responding.

IMO Salazar might not have been comfortable "prescribing" more sprinter style training which Webb had more under Razko (especially in high school since Webb also ran the 4x400).

Some mid-distance guys just respond better to doing speed work through out most of the year (except for the 1st month getting back into shape after the seasonal break). Seb Coe for example ran 200 meter hill repeats "flat out" early in the season. In addition the Coe/Horwill "5 paces system" has 400 meter race pace work in its training cycle.

Not everyone responds to high mileage or Lydiard based training.

Also the type of training is important as well as the overall volume. For example a speed based guy will probably respond better to a 20x400 (5K pace, 60 second rest) session as opposed to 8x1000 (5k pace, 3 minute rest) to develop his VO2max. Also a speed based runner will likely respond better to a higher volume of repetition runs and fewer tempo runs.

Studies of 800 meter runners have shown that if you have a 400/800 type, you do NOT put him through Lydiard style program.

i hate to say this but didnt John Kellogg predict Webb sacrificed his future development a lot hammering intervals with the quack Racsko

Webb didn't really have a strength problem under Rascko did he? Remember when he beat Ritz in that 10k a few years ago? Or when he ran 13:10 in the 5000?

I'm guessing Webb's foundation at this point is satisfactory, and if he starts focusing more on speedwork now he'll run some good 1500m times this summer. Maybe AlSal's plan was more strength focused, and that's why Webb split.

With his success in so many of the long track events yet his refusal to work on them it is obvious to me that this is the case of a man who is choosing his event rather than accepting what he has been chosen for. Alan Webb could probably train for a year and break the American records for the 3k - 10k and compete at a world class level in these events. Why he is so stubborn about being 'a miler' is beyond me. He is still one of my favorites but I wish he would move up and run to win instead of running to prove himself.

Really?

Here's why he is "so stubborn about being 'a miler'"

2007:

800 meters: #2 fastest time... IN THE WORLD: 1:43.84 (0.1 sec from #1)

1500 meters: #1 fastest time... IN THE WORLD: 3:30.54 (nearly .5 sec faster then #2)

Mile: #1 fastest time... IN THE WORLD... 3:46.91 (nearly 1.5 seconds faster then #2). American Record Holder.

Golden League winner (1500) in Paris

Golden League champ (800) in Heusden

USATF Champ

I am all for Webb busting sub 12:50 in the 5k (he has the ability to), but the guy, when he is on, can be the best at the 1500.

Razko peaked him too early for the World Champs. If he was in the shape he was in when he ran in Paris, at the WC, Webb wins in dominating fashion over the last 100 meters rather then fading.

In 2008 his 1500 meter time from 2007 would have been #1, in 2009 it would have been #3, in 2010 it would have been #4. If he can get back to 2007 fitness, he is in the mix for Gold, Silver or Bronze.

Webb is scary good at the 1500. He could be scary good at the 5k too, but I don't think any better then in the 1500.

bob barker wrote:

I think your stupid thinking either way if you expect big results after only sticking with a program for a year

Less than a year of racing, actually.

He already has a 3:37 this year, finishing between Kiprop and Willis.

He hasn't raced in the months of June or July under Salazar.

There is no data to see how he performs in this system.

He's had more than adequate success in other races without much experience or specialty training. That's awesome that he has great numbers for 2007 but this isn't 2007 anymore and its obviously not the same Webb anymore. For some athletes age is a factor that is limiting in middle distance events. Observing Alan, I believe he falls in to this category. If anything, he is better suited to be a 15/5 guy than an 8/15 guy.

Did Kellog ruin Wejo with all that high mileage that left him injuried when the important races were run? If the training doesn't work out, the coach gets blamed.

hbtdxghbnjknyfc wrote:

i hate to say this but didnt John Kellogg predict Webb sacrificed his future development a lot hammering intervals with the quack Racsko

That was 4 years ago! As pointed out in another thread, Webb will be 29 yrs old in 2012. He's better off focusing on the 5K. His best 1500m days are over. Age will be a factor for London.