Regular 400 trying 800

Stay with your regular group. It is too late to make a difference now. If you want to workout with another group, do so at least 2 weeks in advance.

I suggest that your run about 83 seconds on your first lap, no faster, since your 400m times have ranged from 76 to 83 seconds. You can expect to run about 2:54-55 overall, all things being equal.

Typically 400m runners slow down about 10-12% from their personal bests in 800m races. As an example a 60 flat 400m runner typically runs 132 seconds (2:12) to 134.4 seconds (2:14.4). Mid-distance runners slow down less, but they usually don't have as much pure speed as sprinters.

Tinman

I don't agree with Tinman's 10% theory. I'm a middle dist runner and I can hold about 10% off of my 400 on good days only. Also, I have known 50 point 400 guys (who are trained as sprinters) struggle to break 2:10 in the 8. I think you should try to run 3:10 pace and see how you feel from there.

I think Tinman is right on. I coach cyo track and have a 72 second 400 kid who runs a 2:50, a 68 second kid who runs a 2:41, and a 70 second kid with a 2:46.

Tinman, if you happen to read this post, these 400/800 boys and girls I coach have three meets left in the season.I also have some very good 1600m boys and girls that are in the same position

1.Qualifyer 4/24

2.Sectional champs 5/1

3.League Champs 5/8

We practice tues and thurs. race on sat.

All should breeze thru qualifying meet and Sectionals.

We have been doing longer tempo and distance work on tuesdays (off track) and intervals on thursdays, encouraging them to get in a 30 minute run on sunday or mondays most all season.

What would you suggest I have them run tues./thurs. this week and next.

thanks JE

so I should go for a 3:10 time for an 800 right?

800mrunnr wrote:

I don't agree with Tinman's 10% theory. I'm a middle dist runner and I can hold about 10% off of my 400 on good days only. Also, I have known 50 point 400 guys (who are trained as sprinters) struggle to break 2:10 in the 8. I think you should try to run 3:10 pace and see how you feel from there.

Tinman is right ON AVERAGE, but the variation is much larger than he claims. For top guys, it ranges from 8% for Steve Ovett to 17% for Juantorena. The more miles you run, the higher the percentage of 400 speed you can maintain, but the slower your 400 speed is.

Some 50 point 400 guys (sprinters) are hard pressed to run 2:15.

3:10 is too conservative. Get plenty of sleep the night before and you will break 3:00 no problem. Three training days are not enough to bother changing your routine.

okay thanks.. i will try to go to bed around 10pm I'm guessing (or should I go earlier? I wake up at 6:30..) and I'll try to drink 32 oz. of water during school (or more?) and I will eat healthier on Thurs and Friday. I've never competitevely ran a 4x8 before, of even an open 8, so this could get interesting.. it's also the first event of the meet.

Sorry for not seeing your questions about Tues/Thurs training this week until after the Tuesday training session was done by your kids.

I would suggest at this point your kids do 10 minutes of easy running, drills, strides, then 3 x 400m at a fast speed, about 95% of max effort (about 3 seconds slower than all-out) with a 400m jog and 400m walk between reps. Afterward, the kids jog for 15 minutes to get the lactic acid out of their muscle and to neutralize the blood ph levels. You could do this type of work on Thursday too, as long as the kids can handle high speed and not be sore for Saturday's meet. My suggestion is that in the last 3 weeks of a high school track season, 800-1600m runner do 3- x 400m fast or 3 x 300m fast. I don't think anymore interval/rep work is needed in the peak phase. I think it is still important to get in some easy distance work in addition to the speed.

Tinman

exclusive,

Sure, run the 4x800. Maybe you'll discover you are more suited for longer distances.

I would say that Tinman is more than likely correct with his rule of thumb for determining a 400/800 conversion, but as is the case with most running coversions, there are exceptions galore. I had a 2:03 800 PR in high school (never ran it since) and would easily have beaten any of the 400 meter guys at the 800 distance, but I would have gotten nowhere near the 51 seconds or so they were running for 400 meters. Fortunately the 800 wasn't my thing either - more of a 3200 meter guy; the 800 was too short.

Bottom line is if the coach says it's ok for you to run the 4x800, then go do it.

Thanks for the advice. On tues. after warm up we ran

1x600m at a comfortable steady pace.

1x600m {200m at start race pace -200m float,-200m finish

1x400m 95% effort

3x150m steady work on form.

cool down

thurs. I was planning, 1200m/7min easy pace

3x300m 95%

1200m/7min. easy pace

so it looks like I wasntt to far off.

thanks again J.E.

What is the 1200m Easy 7 minute pace? Are you saying run 1200m at 7 minute pace, therefore 5:15 for the total distance?

I do think the 300s at 95% effort is a great workout at this time of your season as a middle distance runner. Make sure you do a long cooldown and run the next day slowly, but do not take Friday off!!

Tinman