Mr. Renato Conova, can you please comment on El Guerrouj's training

I think you are misinterpreting some of this. The 35-60 minute runs were run at ~15 min 5K pace (3 min/km). For someone who ran eventually 12:50, this is not anywhere near 100% VO2 max. It is more like Max Steady State pace. El Guerrouj was observed running 10 miles, in 50 minutes, at altitude....5 days in a row. These are high end AEROBIC runs.

El Guerrouj did not run high mileage. The mileage-obsessed types around here are, of course, going to have to argue with someone as unknowledgeable as El Guerrouj's coach, but when Abdelkader Kada spoke in the UK to a group of Senior Coaches, he put El Guerrouj's max mileage at 75mpw. This was listed by both Athletics Weekly and the British Milers Club and is still online in the BMC Journal.

The training, as with Aouta's, is a variant of what Coe did, modified for Moroccan training styles. Kada said this directly when he spoke in the UK. The mileage is similar, and the multi-pace style is similar. There were hard aerobic runs, track intervals, and hill repeats throughout the training year. Coe, remember, ran 46-point, but I doubt that El Guerrouj could have touched him an a 400 or 800.

El G approached the mileage from a strength background, which has been brought up on other threads on this site before. Like the above poster said, he did not run high mileage. However, he would do these runs multiple days in a row like it was just another run. Lagat also trains in a similar fashion, 60-70 mpw with about 50 mpw under 5:30 pace/mile.

El G could probably run 48/1:42 in the 400/800.

*Sorry, meant to say El G approached the mile from a strength background.

Thanks for the input. I am wondering what percentage of VO2 max are these high end aerobic runs? For example, if I want to replicate this training, and I can run a 3:53 1500, what should be the equivalent "base pace"? Maybe 5:45s (my best for a 10 mile hard training run is 56 flat)? Personally, I would have no trouble putting together these types of training runs for maybe a few days, but not weeks at a time...

Then don't. No use pushing yourself to exhaustion.

El G was doing this work as a mature athlete with years of conditioning.

It seems much of his conditioning runs of up to an hour were at around 3.00 per km pace. His best 3000m pace was 2.28 per km and 5000m pace 2.34. You should be able to work an equivalent pace from that based on your 3/5 times. As for doing it day after day. He was a freakish athlete, fully supported and fully professional.

ijk wrote:

Thanks for the input. I am wondering what percentage of VO2 max are these high end aerobic runs? For example, if I want to replicate this training, and I can run a 3:53 1500, what should be the equivalent "base pace"? Maybe 5:45s (my best for a 10 mile hard training run is 56 flat)? Personally, I would have no trouble putting together these types of training runs for maybe a few days, but not weeks at a time...

The key idea to consider is that El G was doing his runs at a high end aerobic/steady state. As the previous poster mentioned, 3'/km is very comfortable for him. Although never contested as a pro, I seriously believe El G could have run low 27 for 10k. The guy was a freak!

He was not running his 10-mile best daily. Based on your 1500 and 10-mile bests, you'd be hurt very quickly or find yourself literally running yourself into a danger zone daily with that approach. I personally believe 5:45 would be a tad bit to quick for you AT THIS POINT for a steady 10 miler. I like the ideas of Hadd: find a comfortably hard pace, run it often on varying terrain, and push your lactate higher and higher. Don't basically start at the top end and hope you can maintain it. The concepts of adaptation and moderation comes to mind (moderation does not equate to easy running, but more high end aerobic).

I think you should really consider running at about 6-6:15 pace, not 5:45 for 10 miles. Throw in a second run a week of 4-5 miles at 5:40-6 flat on either the same week (base phase) or alternating weeks in your in season (the other quality day would be more specific 1500 work). You could ease into your run for the first half mile or so and quickly begin to increase the pace until you're averaging goal pace. You also have to consider terrain. If you're on a hilly course, shoot for 6:15's but if it's flat I think 6 flat would suffice. Lastly consider this: there is no reason you couldn't finish the last mile at 5:45 every now and then. Faster if you're feeling nice. An hour 10-miler for a 3:50 1500 guy is perfect for developing strength...55's on a consistent basis is seriously redlining it.

I remember reading a long piece about El G's training about 8 years ago.

I remember that he did a lot of strength training in the gym.

I also remember reading that on most mornings he'd wake up and do a 10km run about 29:30 to 30:30, and that's on dirt trails in high altitude.

I had the pleasure of watching him race 4 times, Brussels 2000 (Mile in 3:47), Brussels 2001 (1500 in 3:26.12), Heusden 2004 (1500 in 3:29) and Zurich 2004 (1500 in 3:27, his last ever loss). He was absolutely the most incredible athlete to watch. The words "poetry in motion" did not do him justice.

are you sure he ran a max of 75 miles a week? bacause i am pretty sure he averaged 100 miles a week in the winter with a max of 124 miles a week. at his base

chiming in wrote:

I think you should really consider running at about 6-6:15 pace, not 5:45 for 10 miles.

Better yet, you should run 6:15 for 8 miles, that way you're running 50 minutes like El G.

Cool. What's been said so far really does make sense, and I guess my 2nd question was implicitly answered. If a person's running 75 mpw, even at a high effort, this still leaves room for enough recovery to throw in the very fast speed sessions AND strength work necessary to hit the fast-twitch fiber stuff. But I'm still wondering, is there an inherent trade-off between doing high mileage and one's ability to sprint fast? I read an interview with Maggie Vessey's coach on letsrun where he said that you can actually cause your type II-a fibers to act like slow twitch if you do a lot of miles. I'm just wondering, theoretically, if you can prevent that even you ARE doing volume.

I love when someone stumbles across these docs and assumes they are gospel....please don't believe every last thing you read on the net...

take it for what its worth, but i had the pleasure of running w/ hicham when he trained in abq and recovery runs were done at....GASP....8min pace!!!! OMG, hold the presses!!!! yes folks, even El G does "true" recovery. now, in season, perhaps its diff but i can tell you w/ my own eyes, he runs easy on the easy days. I even recall Kada being happy w/ a workout @ academy of 12x400 @ 63.....nothing special, but he was just starting up in dec/jan for the upcoming season....think he ended up winning a couple of races in greece or something that summer....even the great ones have to start somewhere and no, they don't run every single run to the barn.

cheers, dude-

Perhaps you should read those articles before you start wroting a lot of crap.

well, perhaps you should read his post. he ran with el g, as opposed to people who are "wroting" 2nd and 3rd hand info. but i know, hooked on phonix is tough for a smart guy like you.

I remember reading somewhere (i really can't find it, but i'm sure it's somewhere on these message boards) that during his base phase, and maybe occasionally during his "Fundamental Phase" (as Mr. Canova would call it) El G was reported as doing 18 mile runs a little over 5:00 mile pace. That's some strength work, even for a 3:43 miler.

Lost Soul wrote:

I remember reading somewhere (i really can't find it, but i'm sure it's somewhere on these message boards) that during his base phase, and maybe occasionally during his "Fundamental Phase" (as Mr. Canova would call it) El G was reported as doing 18 mile runs a little over 5:00 mile pace. That's some strength work, even for a 3:43 miler.

BS!!!

God Hicham El G was a monster. I wish i could have seen him race in person...

knower of these things wrote:

well, perhaps you should read his post. he ran with el g, as opposed to people who are "wroting" 2nd and 3rd hand info. but i know, hooked on phonix is tough for a smart guy like you.

Any idiot can lie on a messageboard. I´d rather read articles written by people who has listened to lectures by his coach.

knower of these things wrote:

well, perhaps you should read his post. he ran with el g, as opposed to people who are "wroting" 2nd and 3rd hand info. but i know, hooked on phonix is tough for a smart guy like you.

BTW: nowhere in those articles is i stated that El G runs at 3 min/km all the time. You should read them too, idiot.