NIKE OREGON PROJECT

who are you, o' bitter soon to be smiten one?

yeah, i totally agree with you dude. as for salazar, wasn't he quoted as givin props to Victor Conte Jr (Balco druggie dude)? you're better off not being in the Ore. Project. i mean, do you really want to run slower? i think what it comes down to is the fact that you have a life, while the other's don't. sounds like you're married, and you probably have a job workin 35-40+hours a week. and you can still run fast. about those guys, they have it made in the shade, and i bet their drive isn't as high as yours is. sounds to me like you have the better deal in the long run (no pun intended).

happy trails.

Gotta call bullshit on your times. Or maybe Alberto thought you were a self-serving, backstabbing prick who was looking for a free ride.

I also call BS. What did Hansons tell you? What did Team Minnesota tell you? What did ZAP tell you? What did the Farm Team tell you? These are all programs that are doing a better job than Alberto. These are all programs that don't have drug questions that follow them (like Alberto). I am amazed that any athlete would do so little homework as to want to be involved with Alberto.

It doesn't look great when you look at the 5,000m results. I thought these guys were the ~best of the best or close to it to get 28 flat minimum to eventually get to the 2:08 range. The idea was, I think, if it could be done in the 80's then 2:07-08 should be possible now.

That, live all in one house and focus on running 24/7, has been tried many times in many sports. Sometimes there is success from some athletes, others need their space. Geb is married with 2 kids...he's doing o.k.

What you see is it's difficult to predict success from a few runners. I don't mean to knock the Hansons project, because it's working great...but the more athletes you put into a system, the more you will get some very good results and the more you will get some so, so results.

Now Alberto is getting that Galen Rupp high school kid too, a great runner, but not even the best in high school and he's too good for college. Other then that, I agree with what you're saying, "Why wouldn?t they get Brad Hauser, Matt Lane, etc. on the Nike Oregon Project? Why was Salazar so cocky and pretentious?"

On the other hand, maybe they (Nike and Salazar) know something we don't.

eiurunner wrote:

On the other hand, maybe they (Nike and Salazar) know something we don't.

No one has ever said that AlSal was the sharpest knife in the drawer have they?

No, but he thinks he is.

And proves every day he's not.

hmmm, lets stick with what we know shall we? I don't believe you runners know Alberto personally, so enough with the bashing. He is not a bad coach, and Nike knows what it wants for the Oregon Project. If it isnt a huge success, I'll bet you all will find some way to blame it on Alberto, or blame it on something and say you should have gotten on the team if they are running such and such times. Yes, they are improving, but it is gradual. Now please stop with the Salazar bashing, he is a good man, and an excellent coach. A coach has durisdiction on who he wants for their team, and it isnt just about what times you've run already. Let's move on to something else shall we, unless you want to add something productive on the subject of the oregon project. Say that project is a mistake, but dont make personal insults to Alberto. That's uncalled for. Thanks.

OTC, you're right I don't know Salazar and it sounds like you do know him, so I do not mean to insult him.

Anyway, what or who decides which runners can be a part of the Oregon project? The idea seems to be really good on paper: altitude house, good coach, good area to train, everything paid for....etc. Why don't the top Nike runners want to go to the Oregon project or is it that they don't have the choice?

well it does seem like it would be an enticing scenario for elite runners to want to go to, but maybe it is because alot of top notch runners do not care to focus on marathon training. Track is still the more popular, and the project runners may get into some track meets here and there but their ultimate goal of being in the project is the marathon. Even for alot of distance fanatics, the marathon does not seem like an enjoyable experience. But they also need guys who are committed to the lifestyle and that their event will be the marathon, that is the goal. So I don't know. Hopefully if the runners there become more successful, than more talent will enter the pool. The Project is extending to having a group focused on the mile and 800 also. So far Trinity Gray and Richard Smith are in it I believe, possibly with other joining, like Michael Stember has shown interest. But about Alberto, he gets alot of crap, and for what I will never understand. He's doing a good job with them. He is an experimental coach, and Nike is letting him try out training theories to see if they might produce results. This is another reason great success may not be coming right away for some of these guys. Some of his theories have been ok, some have been unsuccessful. But time will tell. If people notice, the Hansons team has been around for a while and they are now showing great improvement and consistency. It's still early to judge the ultimate success possibilities of the oregon project. Just sit back and see what they end up doing.

From my understanding and what I've read of Salazar, he knows his stuff.

Is the house all that special, where you could not get the same altitude effect through tents and runners living in their own homes BUT training together and having a NIKE lab for all of them.

That would be real cool if they got some middle distance guys in their. With the United States having talented 400 type speed athletes it has been crappy that we don't have a few stud 800/1500 guys that consistantly compete with the other top guys in the world.

isn't julius achon with NOP? he's a 800/1500 guy. i have to wonder why he's in the group. for a training partner maybe?

great talent, for sure, but his peak was almost 10 years ago. having him in the NOP doesn't seem to make much sense.

Why no women?

Nike Oregon Project athletes remind me of the new kid on the junior high track team that shows up with a $150 pair of Shox. They bought the shoes because they looked cool but functionally are shit. These athletes thought they were getting involved in something special but there is really very little substance. Alberto is a brick (mentally) and has very little understanding of coaching. It will get tougher and tougher to recruit athletes as it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is a gimmick. However, you will still occasionally have a kid show up with Shox.

Friggin YES, all!!

Bullshit, huh?

At this point, I had never heard of Zap or Team Minnesota (2+ years later I still wouldn't consider either "program" that consists of less guys that were on my college team).

Farm Team offered no financial assistance and in fact was located in one of the most expensive places to live in the country. Gags wasn't there yet either (I think he is a great coach).

Hansons? Again, didn't want to live in a frat house. I can't handle cold weather that good. The best guys in the house were Jurcevich and Baker, both of who I was about the same level as (and at that point, that I should train with at least one person BETTER). It also didn't have the numbers it has right now. That being said, because of the location, I still wouldn't be interested in this program in 2004. Sorry, but quality of life weighs in...

The Nike Oregon Project just seemed like such a cool thing. I mean, this huge investment towards running. Being coached by Alberto was something I wasn't too excited about (I've never run into anyone who thinks he's sharper than a bowling ball), but everything else made it sound great--at least something worth trying.

I didn't mean to put the focus on me, however. I'm obviously not Brown, Meb, Culpepper, etc. so maybe Salazar was right in not selecting me.

My point is--what is up with the group of workout dummies for Brown? SOmeone made the comment that the main focus is the Marathon. These guys suck at the Marathon (Hanneck ran what--2:20?).

Of course, it will always come back to me bitching about post collegiate options in general, which still frustrates me (like everyone else on this board, I'm sure). But looking back on it, I'm not sure why NOP doesn't get 15 guys....? The Hanson bros can do this with their own $$$, but Nike and P. Knight are busy developing a program stacked with foreigners (Achon, Keska, Hanneck, etc.) when the intention in 2001-2002 was to promote American distance running (and Marathoning).

As I wrote before, I have the utmost respect for Dan, but those of you who know him knew that if you gave him all the necessary tools he could be great. If Alberto takes a guy like Dave Davis and has him running 2:09, I'll be impressed. Look at Dan's times before. He has gotten better under Alberto, but he was no slouch before.

It's strange because Nike usually goes after the best (Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzsky, etc.). This Oregon Project selects second/third tier runners from the beginning, which is very atypical of such an innovative company. From a marketing perspective, it's a bad investment.