High School girl running high mileage

Could you explain this to me? Say we have identical twin girls. One runs 7500 miles, as you've prescribed, and the other runs 9000 miles, following a pattern of 30 mi/wk her freshmen year and increasing her mileage by 10mi/wk/yr. Let's assume equal talent, and the first girl ends high school with bests of 5:12 for the mile and 11:20 for 2 Miles, while the second girl, with the additional mileage, has run 4:57 and 10:51. Why would the first girl be more ideal to a potential college coach than the second?[/quote]

Well, can't speak for all coaches, I know there are many that rather recruit kids who they don't have to develop, easier than actually being able to coach.

But, if you are really a good coach, you recruit potential, you want to find the diamond in the rough (wheating) and develop it. If you recruit a talented kid with limited training, you see a future, not some overtrained kid where all you get is a past.

And how about Nicole Blood who was setting all sorts of age group records in middle school? And Jordan Hasay who was a phenom as early as 6th or 7th grade?

Oh wait...

Honestly 90% of these "burn out" cases are often due to poor coaching. With the better coaching we are starting to see nowadays, there are far fewer "phenom" young ladies who "burn out". Look at the Footlocker results for this year (as well as NXN), tons of seniors at the top of the list. Look at the California state meet results (the most competitive state) for say, the 3200 last year and pretty much everyone at the top is a senior or at least a junior.

I doubt you will listen because if you are running 50-60 mpw as a teenager then you are undoubtedly stubborn and determined, which can be extremely good and bad for different reasons.

Honey, listen, honestly. I am not a high level athlete. I'm just a long time runner. I have lots of runner friends. Running takes its toll on your body, regardless of when you start. Cartilage and tendons and ligaments break down as you age, and even more so if you run. There are debates about whether this is true. I used to defend my running, actually still do. Truly honestly geesh how in the world did you get turned onto those kind of miles this young? It's just, if I were a betting person, I would bet that you are going to have major problems before you are 30 or at the latest 35 if you keep this up. They aren't worth it. Get into cross-training. See a therapist maybe. Honestly you are most likely tearing yourself up and are way way way too young to be making those decisions.

I am shocked by all the negativity in this post. You all seem to want the girls to plan for failure. It's time you started teaching women to train for success. If it's working for them and they like it, then there's no reason to stop. If the girls are handling their running volume well right now, then that's zero reason to dissuade them from continuing.

Girls, make sure the people you take advice from know your full running and health history so that they can give you better informed decisions. None of us here can offer very compelling information without a good basis to do so for your specific case.

you are an idiot wrote:

And how about Nicole Blood who was setting all sorts of age group records in middle school? And Jordan Hasay who was a phenom as early as 6th or 7th grade?

Oh wait...

Honestly 90% of these "burn out" cases are often due to poor coaching. With the better coaching we are starting to see nowadays, there are far fewer "phenom" young ladies who "burn out". Look at the Footlocker results for this year (as well as NXN), tons of seniors at the top of the list. Look at the California state meet results (the most competitive state) for say, the 3200 last year and pretty much everyone at the top is a senior or at least a junior.

Wow, you named two stars who stayed stars, although Blood will probably not be the Olympian everyone predicted when she was an 8th grader.

I don't think they have studies re the effects of distance running starting at age 14 over a lifetime. And surely her mileage will climb if she is this serious now.

There's a risk. Bottom line is no one knows the answer. I think it's great that a young woman is such a phenomenal and dedicated runner--no doubt she will be amazing at whatever she pursues in life.

But she is taking a risk with her joints by running that much at this age IMHO. Maybe she will be an Olympian and it will all be worth it. There are lots of ex-nfl players who have brain damage but hey they were in the NFL so who cares, right?

I feel like I'm reading a thread from 1955.

Yeah, maybe she'll be a dictator in Africa and her people will overthrow her in a bloody coup, but what do I know? I just know that if she runs over 25 miles, she'll become a hooker. I know this. Only bad things will happen. There are always only two choices. Boys can run 26 miles a week. Sometimes.

fletch lives..... wrote:

Well, can't speak for all coaches, I know there are many that rather recruit kids who they don't have to develop, easier than actually being able to coach.

But, if you are really a good coach, you recruit potential, you want to find the diamond in the rough (wheating) and develop it. If you recruit a talented kid with limited training, you see a future, not some overtrained kid where all you get is a past.

Talent is talent, whether or not you're whole high school career has consisted of a few months of running (Wheating) or have trained more seriously and have run 10,000 miles by the time they've gotten to college (Hall and Ritz).

Maybe she's motivated and wants to train well to reach her potential. I'd worry much more about running too fast too often or racing too much than doing 90 minute long runs (which actually help).

another lady wrote:

I don't think they have studies re the effects of distance running starting at age 14 over a lifetime. And surely her mileage will climb if she is this serious now.

There's a risk. Bottom line is no one knows the answer. I think it's great that a young woman is such a phenomenal and dedicated runner--no doubt she will be amazing at whatever she pursues in life.

But she is taking a risk with her joints by running that much at this age IMHO. Maybe she will be an Olympian and it will all be worth it. There are lots of ex-nfl players who have brain damage but hey they were in the NFL so who cares, right?

You are equating running, an activity for which humans evolved to do for extended periods of time, with head injuries sustained in American football?

Sebby wrote:

long dong silver wrote:

shell be fine. If things start going badly she can always just back off. It's not like any possible negative side effects would be permanent. Besides, any negative side effects would be better than the side effect of not doing it, ie staying sucky.

Because no 14 year old girl can be successful without doing 90 minute runs right? Where do people come up with this stuff. And yes girls have had permanent side affects from doing too much mileage too soon, delaying puberty.

Well if you're going to do low mileage and be successful, you'd better do a f***load of intervals. Or you can do medium mileage/medium quality work, which ends up being pretty hard anyway (if you're really doing the medium quality). But if you're doing low quality/medium mileage or low mileage/medium quality then you won't be getting very good results.

Train like an animal and worry about the negative side effects later. Unless you're REALLY training like an idiot, 250 mpw style, you should be fine.

The has to be the most uneducated (however well meaning) worthless piece of garbage I have heard someone post on this message board in long time. Not one piece of good physiology in that post. Just a bunch of parinoid speculation that something can't been done just becasue their fat ass hasn't done it or can't do it.

Just more uneducated people putting their own arbitrary limits and glass ceiling over others. How sad.

Sebby, stop shitting up all the threads about young people running moderately high mileage, marathons, etc. It's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Running a lot is not bad for teenage girls as long as they have their diet together and aren't overdoing the intensity. How can I back this? Oh, how about a doctorate in bioengineering. What do you have? You're full of shit, so stop trying to prevent people from running how they want to run.

It really depends on the individual and how they respond. But, that is true for everyone. It also depends on the type of training. 90 minute jogs aren't going to stress the system very much and can lay a good foundation for the future. It's possible that too much intense work could burn someone out but that has happened to me as an adult before.

Young Swimmers often train much more total time and more intensely than runners. XC ski junior women train much more than this. Granted these activities don't pound as much but in terms of cumulative fatigue from training and aerobic intensity it's still a very high load.

Kids used to run around outside all day.

My 15 yr old daughter is a gym rat who will run up and down the court for 3 hours and wish she could do more. Sure there's some stop and go but she is breathing hard. I bet overall it is at least as stressful and comes with more pounding than the 90 minute jog. No one says any of these girls should mellow out.

"if it makes her boobs shrink, it's too much"

Sebby is a retard wrote:

Sebby, stop shitting up all the threads about young people running moderately high mileage, marathons, etc. It's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Running a lot is not bad for teenage girls as long as they have their diet together and aren't overdoing the intensity. How can I back this? Oh, how about a doctorate in bioengineering. What do you have? You're full of shit, so stop trying to prevent people from running how they want to run.

I really love the maturity level of some people. I find it hard to believe you have a doctorate with this type of post, but if you do more power to you. I will respond with a more mature and well thought out post so you can see how it is done.

First of all, there are only two threads about young people, not "ALL these threads" as you mentioned. If you actually read my posts you would see that I admire both of these kids and I wish more kids had the dedication of these two. With that said, I do talk about being cautious and trying to wait a bit longer before doing marathons or high mileage at such a young age.

My experience comes from over 30 years of a successful coaching and running career and being involved in research studies with my female athletes regarding the female athlete triad. I also read just about anything I can on different training methods, coaches philosophies, scientific research, success and failure stories, etc. Running fascinates me with how many different paths to success there are and yes, that includes young people training hard early and still having success later on.

Many of the posts on here have come from people saying so and so had success and they ran a lot of miles at a young age so therefore it can't be bad for you. If you have a doctorate, you obviously understand how that is flawed thinking. I don't just look at one or two examples; I look at the hundreds of examples I have seen with my own years of experience coaching athletes and from observing other athletes and reading about their training background. I don't just post on a topic based on limited experience.

In regards to the female athlete triad, it is a very real problem in female running. There have been a couple of good posts on here in regards to that. You and a couple people have said as long as they are eating well, young female runners will be fine doing high mileage. That is true to a certain point, but the problem lies in what is eating well. Teenage girls that are motivated often like to eat very healthy, which oftentimes can make it difficult to get enough calories. Every overly thin female runner is not necessarily anorexic; they just aren't getting enough calories for the amount of miles they are doing, despite their best efforts. That can absolutely create problems down the road with amenorrhea, calcium deficiency, stress fractures, weight gain, more weight loss, etc. It can be a vicious cycle.

Nothing is as simple as many of the posters on here want to believe. As I have said in my posts, I personally don't think a 15 year old boy should do a marathon or a 14 year old girl should be doing high mileage. I know it can work for some kids and not for others. Since kids are stubborn and will become even more stubborn when an adult tells them they can't do something, I have complimented them and urged them to be cautious, especially for the 14 year old girl in regards to getting enough calories, calcium, etc.

I'm about as thin as they come and can run plenty of miles. Lots of masters runner friends and even family. All have injuries. Primarily joints, aches, pains. Running a lot less time than this young girl. Just open the masters running thread on any given week and I challenge you to find ONE where several people aren't complaining about aches and pains. Did this come from aging or running lots of miles over the years? I don't know (and you don't either), but the few older runners who don't have injuries seem to have started running later in life. This is just from my observation. I haven't conducted studies.

Older Woman wrote:

This is just from my observation. I haven't conducted studies.

Obviously, yet you give advice as though the people are stupid if they don't follow it.

Your logic = me and my old friends have aches and pains and we run so that means running causes aches and pains and so that means young people shouldn't run much because it will be even worse for them when they get old. So many leaps of logic and and faulty judgement there that I don't even know where to begin to point out its errors.