Gerry Lindgren 8:40 indoors

Wood--at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. There is a contemporaneous picture of the race, Clarke v. Lindgren, in Track & Field News.

Yea guess what kind of clodhopper boots Gerry was wearing to run these times. Won't even get into track surfaces for guys like him and Jim Ryan. I say we let all these great runners in the USA run on cinder tracks as they did.

Build one if we had to. Your looking at 5 sec slower in the mile. Don't believe me build the cinder track AND TRY IT!

dixswizzle wrote:

What was the track that Lindgren ran this record made of? I think this was before composite tracks, not sure tho

Long before composite anything. Leather spikes to boot.

The track was about 120y long, slower than current MSG setup. Worth low-8:30's on a banked 200m mondo.

Reality Bath wrote:

The track was about 120y long, slower than current MSG setup. Worth low-8:30's on a banked 200m mondo.

It was a 160y track (eleven to the mile). Earlier in the winter (see below), he set a record on same track running 9 flat, which broke the national indoor record by 22 seconds. So, overal he lowered the indoor record by 42 seconds that season, almost thirty seconds faster than outdoor record of 9:09.8

"12/27/63 - Examiner Indoor -Ralph Gamez is invited to run the 2M at the Cow Palace . . . takes third (9:29.7), behind Jim Ryun (East, a junior -9:22). The winner -Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, a senior). Lindgren runs 9:00.0, shattering the national indoor record by 21.9 seconds, and even 9.8 seconds under the outdoor standard. Lindgren laps ALL seven runners during his 22 lap race around the 160-yard oval."

standard wrote:

It was a 160y track (eleven to the mile). Earlier in the winter (see below), he set a record on same track running 9 flat, which broke the national indoor record by 22 seconds. So, overal he lowered the indoor record by 42 seconds that season, almost thirty seconds faster than outdoor record of 9:09.8

To be fair, high schools only started running the two mile in the mid-60s. Not that Lindgren wasn't off the charts.

As noted above, it was 160 yards, which was the closest thing to a "standard" size in the states at the time. And these sorts of conversions from indoors to outdoors are pretty much worthless. Having raced on a 125m banked board track in spikes made in the early 70s (granted somewhat more developed than what Ryun and the boys wore in their days, but not that much) I can tell you that many indoor times wouldn't be that much faster had the race been run outdoors--nowhere near as different as some people like to speculate.

Reality Bath wrote:

The track was about 120y long, slower than current MSG setup. Worth low-8:30's on a banked 200m mondo.

Er... wrote:

As noted above, it was 160 yards, which was the closest thing to a "standard" size in the states at the time. And these sorts of conversions from indoors to outdoors are pretty much worthless. Having raced on a 125m banked board track in spikes made in the early 70s (granted somewhat more developed than what Ryun and the boys wore in their days, but not that much) I can tell you that many indoor times wouldn't be that much faster had the race been run outdoors--nowhere near as different as some people like to speculate.

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I am not so sure. Cinders were slow, but I always found those short, hard, bouncy tracks took a lot out of me in terms of holding my lane through the curves. I found them damn slow.

That's an amazing run

Er... wrote:

As noted above, it was 160 yards, which was the closest thing to a "standard" size in the states at the time. And these sorts of conversions from indoors to outdoors are pretty much worthless. Having raced on a 125m banked board track in spikes made in the early 70s (granted somewhat more developed than what Ryun and the boys wore in their days, but not that much) I can tell you that many indoor times wouldn't be that much faster had the race been run outdoors--nowhere near as different as some people like to speculate.

If it's banked steep enough, it should be fast. However I'm pretty sure the 160y track that we're discussing wasn't banked, unless someone can correct me. Having run on a 10 lap to the mile flat track, I can tell you it definitely sucks and is noticeably slower. I've never run on boards though so I don't know what kind of a difference that makes.

The boards at the Bovine Palace was banked. There was some spring, but a challenge to run. Also, this was at a time where smoking was allowed and always seemed like they were in the front row. I ran HS 2 mile there in the early 70s

As if the air quality indoors wasn't bad enough.

8:40 on that tiny track is impressive.

I think there is a race in Canada on cinders every spring or summer. There is always some good competition up there.

He was still 17 when he ran the 8:40.0 on 2/15/64 (DOB 3/9/46). Ron Clarke won that race. Three yeaars later, same meet, same track, Lindgren ran 8:32 to beat Clarke.

This SI article discusses both races:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079575/index.htm

Clods!!! wrote:

build the cinder track AND TRY IT!

You don't have to build one around here. There are still a number of them in the area. Although not used they are still in remarkable shape.

Gerry Lindgren's fastest two mile on a track before December 3, 1963 was 9:24.

To show that 8:40.0 run in perspective with that era, here are some further facts about the race:

A headline in the January 1964 Track & Field News read "Prep Lindgren runs Brilliant 9:00, then Fantastic 8:46".

He led with quarter mile times of 61.7, 64.7 and 66.3. He was 4:19.7 at the mile. He would not let Ron Clarke help with the pace and held the lead until approximately three and a half laps to go

The 13,217 spectators jumped to their feet when they heard the mile time was 4:19.7

After that race he still had never been beaten at 2 miles indoors or out by a US citizen.

8:40.0 was 4.6 seconds faster than any US citizen had run two miles in 1963

Lindgren had taken penicillin shots for a week before the race because of a bad cold and sore throat.

He became the fifth fastest US two miler ever-- either indoors or out

It was a World Junior Record and at age 17!

The big question, obviously, is what would such a time convert to on a modern track? Even keeping the racing situation the same with him doing all the work he could've run faster. With a rabbit on a fast modern track, who knows? Looking at what he did later that summer (13:44 leading for, as far as I know, 4600 meters getting outkicked by Schul and a 4:01.5 mile in August) it is always interesting to speculate what he might have been capable of with the advantages modern athletes enjoy in paced races. I think the world outdoor record at the time was around 8:28 by Jazy, and I don't have a clue what the indoor record was but I assume the 8:40 was an American record?

Article about the race:

http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/1966_B4/64golden_gate_inv_sjm.pdf

A Photo from the 8:40.0 race:

http://runningentertainment.com/runningshots21.html

"Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, Spokane, WA) leads Ron Clarke(Australia). 02/15/1964 @ Daly City, CA -SF Indoors 2 miles

High schooler Lindgren pushed the pace but Clarke came from behind to win in 8:36.9. Lindgren -2nd in the renowned: 3,000 m./ 2 miles 8:06.3/8:40.0"

Great articles from all! Really interesting was the quote in the SI piece from Clarke after he interviewed Lindgren for his book:

"When he tottered back to his hotel room several hours later, Clarke seemed badly shaken.

"That fellow is either a physical marvel or the greatest con artist in history," he said, preparing to type up his notes."

Read more:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079575/2/index.htm#ixzz1DWZtoBMm

He forgot the third option: both!

-It was often noted how "diminutive" Lindgren was. True by most standards but this: He was almost the exact height/weight of Haile Gebrselassie.