Can I substitute a long run in Marathon Training with a half race?

Skip the long run and don't try to make the half marathon into a 20 miler. Run 2 mi warm-up and 2 mi cool down for 17 max. Focus on running a fast half marathon. Give yourself a little taper a few days before (no workouts, easy running, less miles). A good strong half marathon will give you a nice fitness boost if you really race it. If you try to train through it, you will risk injury and have a crappy race.

Would generally agree with Precious Roy. Psychologically, a good/fun 1/2 will benefit you. If you choose not to race it, run the first half conservatively and then charge the second. Do a nice cooldown as suggested.

Im planning on racing all out. Thats why I dont think I can really add miles that day. Im thinking of increasing my mid week long run of 15 to 18 and add a mile here and ther so my total mpw dont get affected. How muh taper do you need for a half anyways?

Initial comment: don't be compulsive about the mileage.

First question: What is your weekly mileage?

Then: what is your time goal for the 1/2?

dude this doesn't make sense. If you need to race it all out why do a long run earlier in the week? An all-out race needs a taper. If you don't give a $h1t about the time (hence no taper, LR 2 or 3 days before) then why race all out.

Your options:

1. Taper up and race, this requires sacrificing the training

2. Use it as a hard effort, warm up 4 or even 5 miles easy and run hard, cool down a mile or 2. Alternatively do a LR earlier in the week and then run hard with a shorter warmup, depends on what your weaknesses are and what systems you need to train the most.

radiostar wrote:

Initial comment: don't be compulsive about the mileage.

First question: What is your weekly mileage?

Then: what is your time goal for the 1/2?

Weekly current mileage 75 to 85

Marathon goal is 2:59: ss so half im planning on 6:40 to 45 pace. (bout 5 secs faster than marathon goal.)

Just Wow wrote:

dude this doesn't make sense. If you need to race it all out why do a long run earlier in the week? An all-out race needs a taper. If you don't give a $h1t about the time (hence no taper, LR 2 or 3 days before) then why race all out.

Your options:

1. Taper up and race, this requires sacrificing the training

2. Use it as a hard effort, warm up 4 or even 5 miles easy and run hard, cool down a mile or 2. Alternatively do a LR earlier in the week and then run hard with a shorter warmup, depends on what your weaknesses are and what systems you need to train the most.

Thanks

This really makes sense. I cant eat the cake and have it.

Somecokedupbrit did this before London and got a pr in both

To the OP: I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to do this race but I do not know anything about traveling to PR. If you fly into San Juan is it tough to get to the start line for San Blas? Thanks for any info - looks like a challenging but awesome race.

This is very dependant on what is the distance of the marathon you are training for. Is this goal race a 10k marathon? a 4k marathon? a 42.2k marathon?

More information is needed if you need a good answer.

To OP:

Your weekly average mileage of 75-80 is certainly sufficient to run a sub-three hour marathon, and since you are concerned about sacrificing mileage during the week you plan to run an all-out half, I think it's safe to infer you have not been skipping long runs up till now. My experience has been in line with John Parker's contention that training runs longer than two hours are counterproductive.

Bottom line is this: your aerobic engine is not lacking in development. Few runners attempting to go under three hours for the first time have seen a single 75-mile week, let alone an average that high over the course of several weeks. Your endurance is certainly adequate.

What remains to be developed, it appears by your very modest marathon goal (as gauged by your ambitious training commitment,) is your speed endurance, and an all-out half-marathon about now is ideal, along with a flat-out 10 km 3-4 weeks out from the target race.

If anything, I would advise cutting mileage a bit after the half (maybe by taking a day off per week,) and adding more marathon goal-pace, half-marathon-pace (corresponding to threshold, or tempo pace) and faster efforts into the mix, interspersed with serious recovery sessions.

By no means should you become obsessed with keeping mileage and long runs intact into the final week or two before target race.Everyone knows someone who has sabotaged an important goal race because of an inability to resist one last ten-miler the day before. If that didn't ruin him, he was invariably injured during the ten-miler he couldn't resist the day AFTER.

La Moda wrote:

To the OP: I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to do this race but I do not know anything about traveling to PR. If you fly into San Juan is it tough to get to the start line for San Blas? Thanks for any info - looks like a challenging but awesome race.

It is an awesome race. Its an experience of a lifetime, and I have run New York and Disney, so I can tell you about great races. The experience in San Blas is something special.

If you were to come to San Juan and try to get on your own to San Blas, I would advise against it. You need some local help since there will be about 250,000 people crammed in the small town Coamo. THe best way is the way I do it and all the San Juan runners do it. Get in a bus (motorcoach) with one of the local running clubs that charge about 30 dollars for the round trip including food sometimes. It leaves around 8 am and you come back late at night. The actual trip takes about 1.5 hours from San Juan because of the heavy traffic once you get to Coamo.

If you plan on coming down let me know and I can hook you up with transportation on that day.

michael t. smith

Your advise if good. I think you hit the nail with your observation about me needing more speed endurance.

However, if I didn't run long runs over two hours, I would be running long runs of only 16 miles. You are saying that long runs of over 16 miles would be counterproductive? If I were doing long runs @6:00 per mile, I would agree but not at 7:30.

cpaiglesias wrote:

michael t. smith

Your advise if good. I think you hit the nail with your observation about me needing more speed endurance.

However, if I didn't run long runs over two hours, I would be running long runs of only 16 miles. You are saying that long runs of over 16 miles would be counterproductive? If I were doing long runs @6:00 per mile, I would agree but not at 7:30.

I always had much better luck with a marathon-pace, (or, if hilly, marathon effort, 16-miler than with 20-mile plus runs. Recovery was a matter of 48 hours, rather than a week.

As Parker puts it, correctly, I think, a 2-hour plus run is not a training run, but a depletion run, which depletes your glycogen stores, which, much like a marathon,will require extended recovery, thus compromising the next week or so of training, and courting injury.

I'm not of the school that thinks you have to rehearse the entire marathon experience to succeed at it. You need to systematically build you aerobic engine, which includes enough easy running to teach your body to burn fat and glycogen simultaneously, then build your pace endurance, and make sure you toe the line with plenty of glycogen aboard.

I was a 2:46 marathoner whose 10-week buildup typically totaled 650 miles, including a 36-mile final week, and last four or five weeks (when emphasis included speed endurance) incorporated a planned off day.

My best mile was 4:59, my best 800m was 2:17, and I never broke 60 for 400m, facts I mention just to emphasize that I didn't bring much that commonly passes for natural running talent to the task.

A typical daily run was about 11 miles @ about 7 min/mile in training shoes.

So, try doing a long run of two hours at 7:15 pace rather than 7:30. A 20 mile run at half a minute or more slower than race pace at best would develop your areobic base, which I think is already adequate, while depleting glycogen. A two-hour effort @ something closer to marathon effort would build pace endurance. You have enough pure endurance to get through the distance; what you want now is training that will help you get through the distance comfortably at your desired pace.

just another guy wrote:

This is very dependant on what is the distance of the marathon you are training for. Is this goal race a 10k marathon? a 4k marathon? a 42.2k marathon?

More information is needed if you need a good answer.

I rather hope that around here marathon means only one thing. I kind of hate this recent trend of attaching the word "marathon" to races of all kinds of different distances.

Sounds awesome. I'm signing up today. If you could help me find a bus and answer some other questions through email, that would be awesome.

Thanks!

Had similar background to Mr. Smith. What he said makes pretty good sense for your situation.

you can run the half marathon in the a.m and about 6-7hours later ran 7miles as a recovery run, that would be good. push the pace on the half and easy 7miles later.

I would race the half but would not do any mileage after. Your legs are already going to be beat down. A nice brisk walk will benefit as much as anything. I would also try to work my way down to 6:30 pace for the half. Getting used to running faster will make the first half of the marathon feel real easy.