Do you know where the marathon came from ?

story has it the runner also died as soon as he reached Athens

The runner (Phidipides - I'm sure I spelled that wrong) did die right after delivering the message.

To be more specific, the exact distance of 26 miles 385 yards and 3 inches was established in 1908 because it was the distance from the doors at Windsor Castle to the Royal Box in Windsor Stadium as the King (George V - UK guys help me out with that one) wanted the race to finish right in front of him.

How could you possibly just be discovering this? Are you 10?

Close, it was actually one of the Royal Princesses, I believe, who wanted to view the finish. I remember 'thanking' her the last time I ran one.

(Phiddipiddes (sp?) allegedy ran some monstrous distance before his run from the Marathon battlefied. It was not the 20-26 miler that did him in if I recall.)

I have seen some closeup photos of those (1880's- 1910's)guys in action. Check out the footwear; looks like they were wearing dress shoes. OUCH! Blister city.

Tom Dederian's book on the BAA Marathon has some good shots as well of the very early days of the 26.2 event.

Imagine if the event was standardized at 20-22 miles?

It was the British Queen who was seated in the royal box at Windsor....which resulted in the now standard 26/385 distance. The King didn't make it that day.

There are actually several different versions of the Pheidippides tale, some in which he does not die. Roger Robinson covers the various versions pretty well in his book "Running in Literature."

Luke wrote:

There are actually several different versions of the Pheidippides tale, some in which he does not die. Roger Robinson covers the various versions pretty well in his book "Running in Literature."

No, there is only one version to the Pheidippides tale, and it was told by Herodotus. "Dip" was nowhere near Marathon, and there is no mention of any messenger dying upon delivering notice of victory.

Tales of Dip's early demise is perhaps one of the original urban myths, first debunked by ancient sleuth Snopesesse.

malmo wrote:

Luke wrote:

There are actually several different versions of the Pheidippides tale, some in which he does not die. Roger Robinson covers the various versions pretty well in his book "Running in Literature."

No, there is only one version to the Pheidippides tale, and it was told by Herodotus. "Dip" was nowhere near Marathon, and there is no mention of any messenger dying upon delivering notice of victory.

Tales of Dip's early demise is perhaps one of the original urban myths, first debunked by ancient sleuth Snopesesse.

http://www.snopes.com/

It's about damn time someone took their head out of the sand and screwed it on straight.

It amazes me how many people choose to believe this ghost story. But then again, one could say the same about Catholics . . .

Rexing would put Phidippides to shame

God is real, I met him on Mt. Sinai. He resembles a glowing bush.

geek wrote:

How could you possibly just be discovering this? Are you 10?

No.

I'm new to the sport of running and I've been looking to learn as much as I can, history, training, physiological transformations, etc. . You shouldn't try and knock someone down who is new to the sport . . . is this not a sport that needs more attraction ?

From N. Gardiner's Athletics of the Ancient World, Oxford, 1930:

"We have no means of estimating the performances of Greek runners or comparing them with those of our own times. The Greeks kept no records. We hear of a runner who could outpace and catch hares, of another who raced a horse from Coronea to Thebes and beat it. Various feats of endurance are recorded. Herodotus tells us how Pheidippides ran from Athens to Sparta in two days, a distance of a hundred and fifty miles. It was the same Pheidippides who is said to have brought to Athens the news of the victory of Marathon, a story commemorated in the modern Marathon race which is of course a purely modern event unknown to the ancients. But all this is too vague to be of any value for comparison. Such scanty evidence suggests that the Greeks generally attained a high standard of running, especially in long distances."

Anybody know the guy's time? Training?

malmo wrote:

Luke wrote:

There are actually several different versions of the Pheidippides tale, some in which he does not die. Roger Robinson covers the various versions pretty well in his book "Running in Literature."

No, there is only one version to the Pheidippides tale, and it was told by Herodotus. "Dip" was nowhere near Marathon, and there is no mention of any messenger dying upon delivering notice of victory.

Tales of Dip's early demise is perhaps one of the original urban myths, first debunked by ancient sleuth Snopesesse.

http://www.snopes.com/

To say that there is only one version of the Pheidippides tale is a bit arrogant. While Herodotus does give the first account of this battle (that we know of), it's important to note that it took place right around the same time as Herodotus was born. I doubt he recorded these events as an infant. Like just about everything else we know about the heroics of this time period, the events were probably sung by bards and many versions existed in the ancient world. To say that there is just one version of a myth is like saying there is just one way to spell Pheidippides (there isn't- that doesn't make the other ways wrong) or Vergil (Virgil). Or like saying the Trojan War war was due to the rape of Helen as opposed to the Judgement of Paris.

geek wrote:

How could you possibly just be discovering this? Are you 10?

this made me laugh big time...thank you geek!!

mf

Good for you!

It\'s nice to see someone coming in with a fresh appreciation.

Luke was correct when he said there is more than one version of the Pheidippides story. You may want to see Herodutus' version as the truth, but the key word here is "story"...the story has been told in many different forms, valid or not. There was even a popular song about Phedippides, and a long poem by Robert Browning.

classics major wrote:

To say that there is only one version of the Pheidippides tale is a bit arrogant. While Herodotus does give the first account of this battle (that we know of), it's important to note that it took place right around the same time as Herodotus was born. I doubt he recorded these events as an infant. Like just about everything else we know about the heroics of this time period, the events were probably sung by bards and many versions existed in the ancient world. To say that there is just one version of a myth is like saying there is just one way to spell Pheidippides (there isn't- that doesn't make the other ways wrong) or Vergil (Virgil). Or like saying the Trojan War war was due to the rape of Helen as opposed to the Judgement of Paris.

Since you arer a classics major, surely you can cite text and verse to support your contention?

jtupper-ware wrote:

To be more specific, the exact distance of 26 miles 385 yards and 3 inches was established in 1908 ...

Nope. It wasn't standardized at that distance until the 1920s. Early marathons were about 40 km, and not really precise. The only reason the 26.2 caught on was the '08 OG was the one where Dorando Petri looked about ready to die on the last lap and got help across the finish line, thus DQed. The USA's Johnny Hayes inherited the gold, and after the games the two put on several professional match races over the 26.2 mile distance. No DQ and we're probably all running 40k.