Help evaluate the winter base schedule that my coach gave our team

looks pretty decent to me. i guess it depends where your prs's are currently and what you are training for, presumably indoor season

No indoor races, first meet is the 3rd week of February. Training for the 1500, pr is 3:53. Ran 32:06 in XC.

A 32:06 8k is pretty weak

those 1500s look at little fast

Even though it seems like you are doing a lot of "workouts", 6 out of 7 of your days each week are aerobic days, with only the 100 and 200 repeats being anaerobic.

There's a lot of talk these days about how runners should go on "feel" rather than thinking "I must run X miles at Y pace." By and large, if you tell high school or college runners to just go out a run, they will run an even pace that is typically a bit slower than ideal. Many of your top athletes who "run by feel" let those Stepping Stone, fartlek, and AT runs just happen. SOOOO, many coaches nowadays are assigning such workouts to their athletes to mimic the kind of training where every day has a sprinkling of some quality mileage.

I have two issues with this training plan and they are a bit overlapping:

1.) trade out the 7-day cycle with a 10-14 day cycle

2.) Space out the long runs (one every 10-12 days) and more than easy day between your longer interval workouts and your anaerobic work.

The actual workouts look pretty solid, although the paces are kind of weird. 4:50 for 4x1500 is just a hair slower than your 10k pace, so that shouldn't be too hard, but then 20 minutes at 5:50-6:00 pace? It's fine, it's just a really easy workout.

The only thing I disagree with is the 800s at 2:17 (and the 1ks that are similar); that's 14:16 5k pace, which I'm guessing is quite a bit faster than your PR, and it's a little soon for something that hard if you aren't doing indoor.

But again, you keep the workouts under control and keep the mileage up and you'll run well, just don't go overboard and try to race your teammates, especially on some of the more intense interval work.

So the core of this training is fine, but the only problem are the rest in between? I agree with that, but I just find it hard to fathom that I should be doing 6x1000 in 2:52 with 3 minutes rest in the first week of January. I had planned on doing some repetition work in the first place, so that really doesn't bother me.

Is there anything worth cutting out of this schedule, or just extending it over a couple more weeks?

The actual schedule has 6:00-6:11 pace on there, I just changed it to 5:50-6:00 because it really did not make any sense, and still doesn't with the change.

That schedule really doesn't seem that bad. Wednesday and Saturday might be rough, especially if you have bad weather wherever you live during the winter, but otherwise most of the workouts are easy and done with. What about the schedule shocked you? Most coaches would rather you did all your fundamental training during the off season so they could just sharpen and race you. Seems like this isn't asking too much. You do want to be a decent runner, right?

Sorry, I didn't really look at the times for the intervals. I would agree that they are a little bit fast for your 10K time, but that's not to say that you shouldn't do them. Just don't worry about hitting the time so much as running at around 5K pace on the 1000s and 1500s and around 3K for the 800s. If you're out of breath and doubling over after any of them, then you're doing them too hard. Just get used to running quickly but easily.

I can't begin to imagine how our coach is going to build on this. I've always been taught to get in a great base during the winter so that you can handle the harder workouts later on. I would never have done any of the Wednesday workouts with any other coach during December, it just seems like it's too much (Wednesdays).

I'm not scared, just skeptical. It is unlike anything that I have ever done over a winter break.

asinine9 wrote:

I would never have done any of the Wednesday workouts with any other coach during December, it just seems like it's too much (Wednesdays).

I have to admit, the 1000s in 2:52 jumped out at me. I used to run 3:52-3:53 and that would have been an intense session for midwinter.

Ask your coach how hard these sessions should FEEL. It's possible he's made a slight mistake with some of the times, or geared them to somebody faster. If those Wednesday sessions are supposed to be 95%-VO2-max-type sessions - between 5k and 10k intensity - it would all make sense. It's common in base training to try to finish each session feeling like you could do another rep or two; if coach agrees, let your body dictate the pace.

Those 1500/2000 are at 8-10k pace. That is a good aerobic workout that isn't too hard to recover from. Those are pretty standard.The 800/1000s are going to be at about 3k pace. Those are going to be really hard workouts (i.e I would be mildly surprised if you could do them). I would have thought they would have been more like 5k pace (~2:30/3:08).The fast stuff is barely anaerobic with the long rests and short run times. Good stuff to stay in touch with your speed.When the season starts, I am guessing you will start doing anaerobic workouts (300-600 at 800/1500m pace) and hard aerboic (those 1500ms drop from 10k pace to 5k pace)

Is your question with the schedule that it's too hard? If so, why would you be increasing some of the paces:

asinine9 wrote:

The actual schedule has 6:00-6:11 pace on there, I just changed it to 5:50-6:00 because it really did not make any sense, and still doesn't with the change.

Talk to the coach about changing anything. This coach definitely knows what he's doing, even if it's different from what you've done in the past.

I think the schedule makes a lot of sense. I think 100 different coaches would adjust this 100 different ways. I don't think coaching middle distance runners is standardized at all: many coaches come from sprinting backgrounds, while other coaches come from distance backgrounds, and both sides are incredibly relevant. Sprinters run fast and short most days: that's an easy day. Distance runners run slow and long most days: that's an easy day. Middle distance training finds a balance. It seems like that's what you're coach is doing, with a program that makes sense.

It sounds like you're coming from a distance background, and you're uncomfortable with having so many quality days. But the only day each week that is truly all that taxing is Wednesday. While your other days are faster than easy running, they're not supposed to break you down (which is why you shouldn't be changing the prescribed times).

Looks fine to me. If your pr is 3:53, then you're a 4:11 miler at your best. At this point in the season you're probably - what, 8-10 seconds out of shape? I would think a 4:20 miler could do those workouts.

I don't think a lot of 4:20/32 min milers are doing 8x800 @ 2:17 w/ 3 min recovery (or the 1000ms). I would expect to be right around 9 (for the 3200) off that workout, while I am guessing this runner is more like a 9:10-9:30 type guy. Slow those 800s down by 8-10s, and this workout becomes easily doable.

post college wrote:

Looks fine to me. If your pr is 3:53, then you're a 4:11 miler at your best. At this point in the season you're probably - what, 8-10 seconds out of shape? I would think a 4:20 miler could do those workouts.

I don't know what your typical mileage has been, but I can sort of understand your coach's thought process. It's probably along the lines of, "Let's have them do a lot of easy running, give them a few easy workouts each week to break up the monotony and get them into shape, and we'll start hitting the tougher workouts for real once the semester starts."

Maybe you should just ask him if he wants you to increase the mileage or intensity if it starts to feel to easy. If he says neither and it really is too easy, you can think about ignoring him.

Whoah? 2:17's too fast for a 4:20/4:32 miler? You know, I've always wondered this. I'm a 4:28/9:36 1600/3200 runner and my coach had us doing 6 x 2:10-2:15 with 2-3 minute recovery (during season). Of course, it was always an incredibly difficult effort for me.

Is this a good plan for 5k, 10k and halfs? I'm starting to focus on running for the first time and need a good plan to follow. What all would you change in this plan to make it more 10k/half appropriate?

You bumped an old thread with ridiculously fast workouts?