Improvement from running more then 140 miles a week.

I heard Eastern Michigan U did this with some of their less talented runners as some sort of an experiment.

The short answer is 'no'. The longer answer is this:

While I am a passionate advocate of very high-mileage, I believe that is benefit is only seen when high mileage is done over long periods of time. If, and this is a huge if, you can keep your mileage above 140 for months, then you will see huge improvements. On the other hand, if you run a 160 and then two 80s and then a 180 and then nothing for a couple of weeks and so on, then 'no' you won't improve - at least you won't improve much. Frankly, based on my experience, the best thing to do is to set a goal for some total mileage for the next 6 months or so: If you can run 4000 miles between now and June 1, then you will be a much better runner, guaranteed. Consistency must be your watch word. In general, it is better to run 4 consecutive 125 mile weeks than it is to run two consecutive 200s and then nothing for two weeks. Remember OAR: trials of miles. Miles of trials. It's not one day or one week or even one month that makes you great. I know I'm being repetitious, but I don't think that the importance of consistency can be overstated. Go for it.

I think you are all nuts. I vary the mileage a lot, I can get big gains from low mileage that you fools are completely unaware of, you know, actually running fast?

Then mileage should build endurance. But this stupid mileage addiction has nothing to do with performance for you nutcases, it's all about increasing your dopamine levels isn't it?

no

Honestly, start with 90 or 100, see if you get any gains from that ind of mileage. If you see no gains from 100, you won't likely have any gains from 140.

More doesn't always equal better.

more than, not more then

Fat wrote:

more than, not more then

Thanks for your help, I accidentally typed the wrong word, but I also don't care because this isn't letsread.com it's actually letsrun.com so shove it.

In response to another post above, I've already tried 90-100 miles a week. In fact, I averaged about 110 this summer and hit 120 about 5 times this fall with a max of just over 140.

I wanted to know the benefits of averaging 140-180 miles a week for 2-6 months this winter/spring.

eyyupp wrote:

I think you are all nuts. I vary the mileage a lot, I can get big gains from low mileage that you fools are completely unaware of, you know, actually running fast?

Then mileage should build endurance. But this stupid mileage addiction has nothing to do with performance for you nutcases, it's all about increasing your dopamine levels isn't it?

Sounds like you're talented.

Bump

deinitelydsds wrote:

eyyupp wrote:

I think you are all nuts. I vary the mileage a lot, I can get big gains from low mileage that you fools are completely unaware of, you know, actually running fast?

Then mileage should build endurance. But this stupid mileage addiction has nothing to do with performance for you nutcases, it's all about increasing your dopamine levels isn't it?

Sounds like you're talented.

Do I have a talent for training intelligently?

Yes, but the better I became, the more talented I got.

fsdafsdf wrote:

Fat wrote:

more than, not more then

Thanks for your help, I accidentally typed the wrong word, but I also don't care because this isn't letsread.com it's actually letsrun.com so shove it.

In response to another post above, I've already tried 90-100 miles a week. In fact, I averaged about 110 this summer and hit 120 about 5 times this fall with a max of just over 140.

I wanted to know the benefits of averaging 140-180 miles a week for 2-6 months this winter/spring.

Ooh, touchy. You say "supposively" instead of "supposedly" too, don't you? Go on. Admit it.

Study some science. Dopamine release does not underlie or mediate pleasurable feelings.

eyyupp wrote:

I think you are all nuts. I vary the mileage a lot, I can get big gains from low mileage that you fools are completely unaware of, you know, actually running fast?

Then mileage should build endurance. But this stupid mileage addiction has nothing to do with performance for you nutcases, it's all about increasing your dopamine levels isn't it?

Just one component is not the key but rather all 4 are key.

Consistency, Capacity, Frequency, Mixture

In order to make the most gains and realize your full potential as a runner you have to maximize each area in unison with the others.

What does that mean?

That means get in the right mixture of work: speed work, threshold work, long runs, races, and don't let any area fall behind. You have to work on all aspects year round.

Do this consistently, week after week, month after month and year after year. There is no short cuts in running, it takes time to realize your full potential.

You need to improve your frequency, slowly over time until you are running approx. 13 times per week.

You need to slowly build your capacity/mileage over time, but only in conjuction with the proper mixture.

Big jumps in either mileage or quality don't work 9 out of 10 times because they aren't sustainable.

No short-cuts, just look at these 4 tenets and slowly and methodically over time improve on them. Maintain good mixture while increasing your capacity and frequency.

Too many people just pick out 1 of the 4 areas and then go overboard on it and that just doesn't work in the end.

Runners are like chains, we are only as good as our leakest links.

Improve your consistency until you are training solidly year round except for occassional planned short regeneration breaks.

Improve your frequency until it reaches 13 times per week.

Improve your capacity until you have reached your own personal maximum amount that you can do wwhile keeping up the other areas.

Keep you mixture in balance with regular work on all areas.

You won't be able to make big changes to any area very quickly but will have to work on all areas (starting with whatever your weakest is) slowly over time.

Too many kids in high school or college (and many post collegiates as well) want to jump to extremes, dramatically jump their mileage or frequency or even their quality work. That is short sighted and just doesn't workout in the end because it's not sustainable. Instead start today to work towards the only true long term solution, that is to work on slowly improving the 4 components of training over time.

To MPR: Thank you for the informative post. I realize that a lot of people on here do not necessarily agree with super high mileage, but I've tried just about everything mileage-wise. I used to do 65-70, I peaked at 90 the next year after a disappointing cross country season and it paid off greatly (almost a minute drop in my 5k PR). So from that I decided more is better and bumped up to 100-110 that summer, I lost probably 5 pounds (a bunch was upper body) and was a completely different runner. I could hammer nearly every day and recover very quickly. It was an awesome feeling being that fit. This last year I ran 120 for a little over a month with a peak of just over 140 miles (I was training for a marathon).

Now as far as your 4 principles(Consistency, Capacity, Frequency, Mixture) I'd like to think I'm achieving close to all of them. I do hills, tempos, fartleks from 30sec to 5 minutes. The only thing I find myself slacking on every week is my long run, but I'm very consistent with my mileage (at about 90 right now and only increasing b 5-10% each week). I probably run about 9 times a week at 90mpw but I usually get up to 13 runs a week when I'm over 110.

I'm at 90 now and I want to be consistently over 110 miles by February. From there I want to gradually increase until I reach at least 140 whenever my body is ready for it. I then want to hold 140+ mileage until May or June and run a half marathon near my house to gear me up for a marathon in the fall.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you to know where I'm at. What I really wanted to take from this thread was a reservoir of success stories to motivate me over the next few cold, wintery months.

I ran 8 weeks at over 130-150mpw and I honestly never felt stronger. It's hard to keep your speed during early season races and such, but once you drop down 20-30 miles a week for a peak you really get all that speed back. I have pretty average natural speed at 2:00 for an 800. I dropped my 5k PR from 16:10-15:23 in a year and a half and my 10k PR from 32:57-31:30. I'm hoping for at least half that improvement for next year as I'm at about 120mpw right now and feeling fitter than ever. I would highly advice it as long as you can be consistent and keep 2-3 runs a week a little bit harder than the other runs.

interesting to note:

I heard Bob Kennedy speak at a running camp this summer. He tried going 140+ mpw during his base phase leading up to a season, and had one of the worse seasons of his career. He did do this progression slowly, but found that his body wasn't able to recover well from the workload.

The next year he returned to 110-120mpw, and found that he was most competitive in this range, so he stuck with it.

So yes, the more mileage you can handle, the better. But everyone has an internal peak, and the height of this peak does not determine the height of your ability.

O! say does that star-spangled wrote:

interesting to note:

I heard Bob Kennedy speak at a running camp this summer. He tried going 140+ mpw during his base phase leading up to a season, and had one of the worse seasons of his career. He did do this progression slowly, but found that his body wasn't able to recover well from the workload.

The next year he returned to 110-120mpw, and found that he was most competitive in this range, so he stuck with it.

So yes, the more mileage you can handle, the better. But everyone has an internal peak, and the height of this peak does not determine the height of your ability.

That's really interesting, and I believe it to be true. I kind of want to find out what my limit is. It might be at 100 miles a week or 90 but I've never tried many weeks over 140 so it's worth a shot, I'm done running in College and have no reason not to try something like this.

Your post begs the next question for me, for anyone who has run 140+ miles a week, what pace was it at? Was most of it slop, jogging around counting down minutes until you're done? Or were all your miles at or near the paces you were running at significantly less mileage?

When my miles are high, I have both. Some runs are 6 minute pace or faster, but probably 5 out of 9 runs per week I'm just logging "junk" miles.

Here is a great success story for you: Frank Shorter - consistently ran 140 miles per week on 13 runs, included 2 track workouts (often very internse speed oriented) and a progression long run each week (often the last 5-10 miles of it at MP). Week in and week out, very consistent. He was world ranked at 5k, 10k and marathon and could really race well at everything from the 2 mile to the marathon. Olympic Gold and Silver Medalist in the marathon and 5th in the 72 Games in the 10k as well.

He had it all: Consistency, Capacity, Frequency and Mixture.

MPR wrote:

Here is a great success story for you: Frank Shorter - consistently ran 140 miles per week on 13 runs, included 2 track workouts (often very internse speed oriented) and a progression long run each week (often the last 5-10 miles of it at MP). Week in and week out, very consistent. He was world ranked at 5k, 10k and marathon and could really race well at everything from the 2 mile to the marathon. Olympic Gold and Silver Medalist in the marathon and 5th in the 72 Games in the 10k as well.

He had it all: Consistency, Capacity, Frequency and Mixture.

I've heard numerous times about people saying "you'll lose your speed running that much." How much truth do you think a statement like that holds? I've personally never felt like I've lost speed. I do, however, feel that strides and short sprints are harder because my legs are simply heavier and more tired than normal. When I start dropping my mileage I feel fresh again (at 100 miles a week).

My old teammate used to run the 1500, and he would run 90-100 miles a week. He was a sub 4:10 miler and emphasized the importance of staying in touch with speed at all times. He does a workout on the track at least once a week that involves a few short intervals with long rest. He calls them speed maintenance and advises me to do it with him. I understand his importance of always keeping in touch with his speed year-round, but how important is it for a guy who runs 10K-Marathon?

I just do striders a few weeks before a goal race and assume that's enough, but I could be way off base.