Lydiard advocated time trials, because they were continuous unlike intervals where you rested. For the last 3 months, I've been doing a time trial at least once a week, sometimes twice. These only last somewhere between 10-20 minutes. They are getting faster though, slowly but surely. Am I getting any benefit out of this?
I used to do loads of time trials
Partly because I thought they were of value - but mainly I would get a bit bored just going for a normal steady run so would go for my course pb's
I new I was never going to be a great runner or even close so did some training which I just enjoyed
They are of value but once or twice per week is too much
Do you really want do have a 1500m time only 2 seconds faster than you have done in training like me! Although a teamate pace me for this after the track season closed & I was in really good shape
The trouble is you can end up better at time trails than races. The main problem was I found if I could get to the front of the race it made no difference but in a better field it was really hard to get runners well ahead of me and I wouldn't race as well as I could have
Plus I was doing too many training sessions fast and you stop improving that way
After all that rambling I would like to add that time trials are very important but don't do them too often and if possible use a low priority race instead you might as well have a new pb instead of a load of course records around your home town like me. Nobody else ran them! New Mills to Hayfield on trail and back on hilly road 27.27 the record still stands!!!
However, the fundemental problem with all training is it does not replicate a race. Lydiard was right in that its the one time you are not getting any rest or going at a slower pace.
Speaking to EA's they frequently run not time trials but a race. From one Kenyan telling about his first training camp runs as a junior 'they dropped us of on the top of a mountain and said be very careful - lots of mountain lions and wild animals are here' He told me he had never run so fast - nobody wanted to be the last runner!
and one more thing don't post all this prediction crap on here - get out there and run it or wait until the race - you will find your own pace on the day
Time trials serve several purposes:- They simulate your race more specifically than interval training, or any other workout. They should be done at close to race pace, and close to race distance. You said 10-20 minutes -- what is your event?- They can help you identify weaknesses, such as lack of racing speed, or inability to maintain race pace for the race distance. This is valuable input for how you should adapt your training.- They are self-correcting. Even if you don't adapt your training, the time-trials tend to correct the very weaknesses they identify, slowly but surely.Three months sounds like a long time, unless your goal is to be a time-trial specialist. Once (and occasionally twice) a week sounds OK, depending on the rest of your training/racing.How far away is your big race? Lydiard's use of time trials might last for four weeks, during a coordination phase, then two weeks of tapering, before the first important race.
hmmmmmm? wrote:
Lydiard advocated time trials, because they were continuous unlike intervals where you rested. For the last 3 months, I've been doing a time trial at least once a week, sometimes twice. These only last somewhere between 10-20 minutes. They are getting faster though, slowly but surely. Am I getting any benefit out of this?
I'm a 5k runner (training for 5k). My first important "race" isn't a race, but every season (indoor and outdoor count as 1) our team has to run a time trial in a certain time depending on what year you are. I'm the only one in my year on the team who isn't injured right now so I'll probably have to run alone.
That's why I was doing these time trials, because I thought it would get me ready for that. Besides that, my first big race is in 2-3 months.
bump
bump?
it depnds..
bump sorry
A more knowledgeable Lydiard guy can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Lydiard didn't meant "time trial" to refer to a situation where you ran all out by yourself.
If I remember correctly, I believe when Lydiard said "time trial" he meant a continuous run at ~race pace at some fraction of a distance (so maybe an "800 time trial" at 1:57 for a 3:55 miler) or running the race distance at a strong but not all-out effort (so maybe running a mile in 4:05 for our same hypothetical 3:55 miler). I don't believe Lydiard ever advocated a weekly all-out race by yourself, if that's what you've been doing.
this guy is right. Lydiard Time Trials arent actual time trials, more like fast tempos
At my high school, when we get into the post season (conference, regionals, sectionals, state) we have a time trial every monday followed by a couple hard repeat miles in trainers. The first week is a 2 mile, then 3 mile, then 2 mile, then mile. These are all on the track and are treated like races. It seems to work because this year we won our 27th state championship.
Yaa, most of my efforts haven't been all out. And I haven't run the full 5k distance yet in time trialing, typically only anywhere from 1-2.5 miles. This isn't a weekly all out race.
IMO tiem trials are retarded. Maybe once a month when you arent in season to check progress, but other than that it just gets in the way of a real workout. Just workout good and you know that youll run fine.
And i could see even every 2 weeks but twice a week? Thats racing every workout pretty much.
Time trials are a good workout.
???afoehasappeared??? wrote:
IMO tiem trials are retarded. Maybe once a month when you arent in season to check progress, but other than that it just gets in the way of a real workout. Just workout good and you know that youll run fine.
And i could see even every 2 weeks but twice a week? Thats racing every workout pretty much.
For more information about how Lydiard used time trials, in the overall context of training, you might want to read this:
http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/al_training_eng.pdf
There you can see:
Time trials during conditioning (base training) are more like tempo runs, rather than racing (Nobby's footnote page 23).
Time trials, combined with development races, just before, and during, the racing season are closer to race simulations. They are steady runs (no speeding up or sprinting at the end) at about "7/8ths effort" (page 35), and can be under-distance, over-distance, or race distance, depending on what you think needs to be developed (pages 20-21). The feedback from time-trials during this phase is important to fine tune your training to strengthen weaknesses.
Once racing begins, you can see several examples where time trials are run twice per week, during weeks without races (pages 27-28).
Am I getting any benefit from only 10-20 min time trials (occasionally even as low as 5-10 minutes) though? I thought tempos are supposed to be 20+ min.
hmmmmmm? wrote:
Lydiard advocated time trials, because they were continuous unlike intervals where you rested. For the last 3 months, I've been doing a time trial at least once a week, sometimes twice. These only last somewhere between 10-20 minutes. They are getting faster though, slowly but surely. Am I getting any benefit out of this?
GET A F***ING coach, I don't have time.
Sorry..
I wouldn't get bogged down in wondering what a tempo run is "supposed" to be. If you're doing the time trials at the right effort and all the other parts of your training are solid, you'll be fine.
Everyone has a different way they convert training to racing. Some folks, after long periods of heavy but controlled training, seem to have trouble going "all out" in a race. If you find that's you, just remember yourself that racing is supposed to really, really, really hurt if you do it right, even if you are in great shape.
3 months ago i had an injury and now ive gotten back to normal training.. just in time for our indoor 5k track time trial in a little under a week. but idk if im in shape to run it... i messed up a time trial effort 2 days ago because it was damn cold and i didnt dress right and went out too fast, im thinking about trying to run 2 miles @ goal 5k race pace today so it doesnt take too much out of me and so i know if i can do it or if i should fess up to coach that im not in shape and hope that i get a little more time.