What is the purpose of 12x400?

Depends on how hard.

Sometimes it's best to NOT overanalyze things. You know kids used to run very fast just by listening to their coaches in days BEFORE the internet..:)

Alan

The goal is to run at LEAST 4,800 yards.

It's a bit unclear if you're saying the 12x400 is at a hard pace, or the 90 sec rest between is ALSO at a hard pace.

Assuming you meant 90 sec complete rest or easy jog, then that has some similarities to a Repetition workout in the Daniels Running Formula. The recovery could be a bit short though for Daniels' preference. The main difference is that Daniels recommends "complete recovery as much as 4x the work portion time", but can be shorter if you feel ready to go again. The 400s would be done around your 1-mile race pace.

The purpose of the Daniels workouts is to improve running mechanics, economy, and anaerobic metabolism. The purpose is not aerobic.

He goes on to say that "the intensity of running reps puts considerable stress on the body to produce energy anaerobically, which in turn produces beneficial changes in anaerobic pathways, where fuel is converted to energy in the absence of oxygen. Also by practicing at "R" pace, you learn to run relaxedly and fast, and race pace becomes more familiar and comfortable.... you recruit the exact muscle fibers that allow you to run fast... eliminate wasted movement... etc..."

lkj wrote:

Today our high school xc team did 12 x 400 with 90 sec rest between at a hard pace. What is the purpose of that when we are racing 5k?

following the basic concept of sometimes training faster and slower than race pace, in this case faster

The purpose of that workout (assuming you were running slightly faster than 5k race pace) is to increase your VO2 Max. Use the search function to find out more. We did 2k hard, 3 min. rest, 10x400 with 150m jog today. Great workout when you're 3-4 weeks out from your key race(s).

gv10k wrote:

The purpose of that workout (assuming you were running slightly faster than 5k race pace) is to increase your VO2 Max. Use the search function to find out more. We did 2k hard, 3 min. rest, 10x400 with 150m jog today. Great workout when you're 3-4 weeks out from your key race(s).

No, it is not the primary purpose. Read what the guys above have written.

It's just a plain old hard workout. We used to do 12x400 on a grassy, gradual rolling hill loop at goal 5k - 1 minute pace, (so if you shoot for 16:30, run 15:30 pace, or 74s) with 1min rest. Plain good hard fun. Don't overthink it.

The sole purpose of this workout is to test your loyalty to the coach. Basically your willingness to do whatever he says, whether it makes sense or not. It serves no other purpose.

Cults and extremist groups use similar techniques.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

well. wrote:

gv10k wrote:

The purpose of that workout (assuming you were running slightly faster than 5k race pace) is to increase your VO2 Max. Use the search function to find out more. We did 2k hard, 3 min. rest, 10x400 with 150m jog today. Great workout when you're 3-4 weeks out from your key race(s).

No, it is not the primary purpose. Read what the guys above have written.

Agree with this. I believe the traditional VO2max workouts have a bit longer work portions (say 3-5 minutes). The shorter 400m seems to be better for developing speed (assuming you were running them around 3k to mile race pace).

What pace were you running them?

lkj wrote:

Today our high school xc team did 12 x 400 with 90 sec rest between at a hard pace. What is the purpose of that when we are racing 5k?

That would be a good session for all events from 800m up to marathon. Why do you ask?

look at Rosa's workout on flotrack

malmo wrote:

lkj wrote:

Today our high school xc team did 12 x 400 with 90 sec rest between at a hard pace. What is the purpose of that when we are racing 5k?

That would be a good session for all events from 800m up to marathon. Why do you ask?

I agree with Malmo, I can show you a top runner at every distance for the 800 on up though the marathon that has a very similar workout to that in their regular rotation.

We could explain the physiological benefit of it to you but really that isn't necessary. You are coached by someone and on his/her team, listen and trust in them and don't give in to the temptation of questioning everything they tell you to do.

Belief in your coach and program is a big factor in your success.

DnlsRnngFrmla wrote:

Also by practicing at "R" pace, you learn to run relaxedly and fast,

Relaxedly?

X-Runner wrote:

DnlsRnngFrmla wrote:

Also by practicing at "R" pace, you learn to run relaxedly and fast,

Relaxedly?

Yep, relaxedly. His word, not mine. Page 114, 2nd paragraph of Daniels Running Formula, edition 1.

It sounded funny to me, too, but since you asked, I looked it up.

you probably could have looked it up just as easily.

Seems that "relaxed" is an adjective, and "relaxedly" is the adverb form.

So, he seems to be using it correctly. A runner is "relaxed", but you run "relaxedly".

Who knew?

What good does 12x400 do for a Marathon when you have 23 more miles to go? Put another way.... 12x400 is ~ 15 minutes of actual workout, so what do I do for the next 2 hours and 30 minutes?

China dog wrote:

What good does 12x400 do for a Marathon when you have 23 more miles to go? Put another way.... 12x400 is ~ 15 minutes of actual workout, so what do I do for the next 2 hours and 30 minutes?

Similarly, what good does a 15-mile run do? You're done an hour or so before you'd finish a marathon--how do you kill the remaining time?

Sometimes you don't question why something works...it just does.

12x400 you run before you can run 16x400 which you run before you can even attempt 20x400. So 12x400 is a stepping stone toward greater things.

Depending on the speed and rest this could be a completely anaerobic workout (long rests, very fast...say mile pace or a tick faster), it could be highly aerobic and very 'dense' (short rests, <30s, controlled pace...say 10k pace) it could also be simple pace awareness (at or close to 5k pace for a 5k runner and equal time rest)

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

Depends on how hard.

Sometimes it's best to NOT overanalyze things. You know kids used to run very fast just by listening to their coaches in days BEFORE the internet..:)

Alan

Actually they didn't. The internet and knowing what others are doing is largely what is responsible for the resurgence at the HS level from the 90's duldroms.

I agree with the sentiment, but things are much better off now then in the 90's....

Really brings back memories. My high school XC team did the exact same workout every Monday when I joined the team in 1966. We all dreaded it, and the rest time was reduced to 60 as the season progressed.

It's good to see that some tried and true methods are still being used.