Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 9/19

pablo - totally agree with you about your easy days. I rarely, if ever, touch 7min pace on my easy days now. I use to start out at 7min pace and bring it down. Feel like it has really helped me not overtrain. Awesome YTD mileage, you are a machine.

Race: Chicago 10.10.10

Goal: 2:36

Mo - 10pm easy in 75mins

Tu - (14) 10am 10 by 1min on @ 5k race pace/1 min off (brisk pace) / 4pm easy

We - 8am in 58mins

Th - (17) 12am with 7mile tempo in 40 mins (5:42 pace) felt smooth / 5pm easy

Fr - 10am easy in 75mins

Sat - (11) 8am / 3pm

Sun - 24 am in 3 hours long slow distance

Weekly Total - 94 miles

Pretty good week here. Felt really good about my tempo. Was only planning 6 mile tempo but felt good enough at 6 to add 1 more mile. Splits were: 5.44, 5.46, 5.43, 5.47, 5.37, 5.44, 5.35. Just felt smooth and strong the whole way. Long run today was last really long effort and I'm glad to get that out of the way. Focus on recovery today, my legs are wrecked.

Hope everyone is feeling it!

Goal Race: Chicago

Goal Time: 2:40

M-20.7 total: 15.6AM inc 10x1m with 60secs rest on a measured mile loop. First repeat at 5:57, last one at 5:32. I've never run a repeat that fast, especially on the roads. 5.1PM

T-14.4 total: 9.3AM/5.1PM

W-16m med long run in 1:56. Ok run, never really felt great. Lets tired

Th-14.2 total: 9.1AM; 5.1 PM

F-14.1 total: 9.1AM/5.1PM

S-24m long run-14 easy in 1:45; 6m in 42; last 4 in 23:44. Didn't really plan on doing MP today, but felt really good. 5:56 avg over last 4. Looking like 6:05 is going to be spot-on

Su-6.7 in 51. Took a really hard spill. more below.

TOTAL: 110

This week was Great. This week included The repeats on Monday were a huge confidence booster. I was easily recovering in 60 secs and to run the last half at 5:50 or better and then the last repeat at 5:32 makes me super confident. I had some new pains pop up throughout the week, but everything fell into place Saturday with my long run. It was my longest run in almost 2 years and felt easier than any of my runs yet. I was planning on doing the last few around 6:20 pace, but felt so relaxed that I was going under 6 without realizing it. Huge confidence booster.

However, this morning I headed out on a shakeout run. I was 3 miles into the run and that far from my house and all of a sudden, boom. I did my best superman to the ground. I look behind me and see that I had tripped on a cut-off sign post that was sticking out about 2 1/2 inches from the ground. See, the City of Atlanta, in all it's brilliance, does not fully remove it's road signs when they are no longer needed. Rather, they cut them off about 2 inches from the ground and leave them. In this case, the stub of the post was in the middle of the sidewalk. Additionally, it just happened that this portion of the sidewalk wasn't paved with concrete, but was super course gravel. When I hit the stub, I bit it hard. Thankfully, it appears to be all surface damage on my body. I'm scratched up pretty bad. I finished the rest of my run bruised and bloody: hands, knees, elbows, quads and all of my chest look like one big carpet burn. As I finished the remaining 3+miles of my run, passersby looked at me really funny. I cannot imagine what they thought to see this guy running down the road with blood dripping all over him. My wife was super upset when I came home and looked like I had been in a battle. It's now been 2 hours since I fell and I'm getting more sore by the hour, but it looks like I have avoided catastrophe.

In full disclosure, I have done this once before. In 2007, 3 weeks before Boston, I tripped on a cut-off post like this one. That time I broke my big toe. I still ran Boston, but significantly slower than I had planned. This time, my feet and toes appear to be fine, so that's a huge relief. Coincidentally, my fall today is exactly 3 weeks before Chicago.

All in all, I think I dodged a huge bullet today. The good news is that I still ran 110 miles for the week and have run 405 miles over the past 4 weeks. I'm a little banged and scratched up, but am feeling super confident. My training is now done and it's TAPER TIME boys! I never thought I would be so excited for a taper.

Besides these surface wounds, I know I'm in the best shape of my life and am ready to reap the results. This week is going to be a slight taper with me dropping my mileage to around 85. I'm curious to know what everyone else's taper will look like going forward.

I hope everyone else's training is going great and you are getting excited. The training cycles are coming to an end. Just don't eff anything up at this point!!

Pablo & Nole - couple of great weeks there chaps - looking really good.

M - 6 easy (incl. 8 strides)

T - 6 easy

W - 8 (incl. 5 x 800m @ 5:12m/m avg, 90 sec recovery)

T - rest

F - 5 (incl. 8 hill sprints)

S - rest - injured

S - rest - injured

Total: 25

Unfortunately the final session of hill sprints resulted in extensor tendinitis in my right foot - likely due to wearing a more flexible pair of shoes than usual. Was unable to walk without a limp Fri and yesterday, but things a bit better today. Vigorous icing, anti-inflamms etc appear to be helping but I have some serious concerns about making the start line next Sunday. Thinking about entering Amsterdam (10/17) as a back-up, but I'll have to make a decision now as entries close today. Will have to make a decision about Berlin by Wednesday at the latest otherwise will have to pay for hotel room - I'll post an update mid-week.

Hope everyone had a good week.

Race: Chicago 10/10

Goal: 2:40

Su - 6

M - 10

T - 10

W - 11/4 Workout of 7 mile fartlek (sort of), 41:50 total of 3/4 hard & 1/4 rec

Th - 9

F - 9/4

Sa - 9

Su - 20 (10 at 7:00 pace then 8 at MP of 6:02 average)

I switched my long run from Saturday to Sunday. My weekly mileage is off so I will give you both.

Total - 72 miles (Sun - Sat)

Total - 86 miles (Mon - Sun)

All morning runs about 7 min pace and all afternoon 4 milers are 8 minute pace on tread.

Wed workout went well. Sub marathon pace with recovery included.

Sunday long run also went well. It wasn't easy but didn't wipe me out.

Question for you all:

Would you think it is cheating/unethical to have someone hand you water/gatorade at some point in the race? This year I am in Chicago so I am nowhere near any money but if it was a smaller marathon where I might place high would it be different. By handing water I mean someone in the crowd hand me a bottle to make it easier to drink on the run.

Race: Chicago

Goal: 2:22

M - 3 miles very easy

T - 7 miles very easy

W - OFF

R - 11 miles @ 6:20 pace

F - 10 miles @ 6:30 pace

Sa - 21 miles w/ 14 miles tempo (avg. 5:19 - don't have splits because the guy pacing me was getting the splits for me)

Su - 15 miles easy

Total: 67 miles

I had to back off for the first few days of the week in order to be sure that the pain that cropped up in my right calf wasn't going to be anything major. Apparently I actually had aggravated my popliteus, which was referring pain to my tibialis and soleus. Anyway, things were feeling good by Thursday, so I started getting after it again. I felt great on Thursday and Friday. Then on Saturday I had one of my best workouts ever. I did an out and back 14 miles on the lakefront path here in Chicago. I had one of my teammates pace me on a bike so that I didn't have to do it all alone. I started at 5:20 pace and basically just held that for the whole time. I sped up a bit in the later stages of the workout, which was kind of tough because I had a headwind on the way back. But it ended up being an awesome workout. I felt super strong. I actually went through the half marathon in about 1:09:50, which would be my third fastest time for that distance. This workout pretty much told me I'm ready. I'll probably do one more week at 100 miles and then come down. I'm really happy that I seem to have dodged yet another injury bullet. I've had a few interruptions on this cycle, but I'm very thankful that none of them have resulted in any extensive down time. Now I just have to not do anything stupid so that I get to the line in one piece in three weeks.

Pablo - nice work on your mileage. You've been putting in great mileage for months on end. Your consistency is quite impressive. There's no question that you'll reap significant benefits from it, both in Chicago and beyond.

AT - I can sympathize with your situation. I took a very nasty spill on a run back in July. Like you, I also fell on some very rough asphalt and tore the hell out of my hands, knees, and shoulder. I was also unfortunate enough to really smash my knee into a bump in the path. It swelled up very badly and forced me to take a few days off. So you have the right perspective in being thankful that it's not any worse than some road rash. You'll be sore for a few days, but you should still be able to run ok. Hopefully things will heal up quickly.

Race: Chicago

Goal: 2:30

Hey guys, looks like we are rounding in to shape at the right time! Marmite, sorry to here about your injury. Be vigilant and you've a good shot to be ready to roll. Try to resist the temptation to "test it" too much. Unfortunately, I am in a similar boat this week. Start out the week feeling great although had a little niggle of tightness in my left lower TA. Did a progression run on it and woke up the next day barely able to walk with a swollen knot just above/lateral to my ankle. Caught me completely off guard. Been completely off it, no running, icing like crazy, and have started wearing my boot at night which seems to be helping.

M: 12 easy

T: 16: 5.5wu, 4x2mi w/3min jog (10:34, :52, :37, :44), 2wd

W: 13.5 easy

T: 15 progression (7:18, 6:54, :32, :23, bunch of 5:50-6's, 5:44, :45, :41, :27, :30) Tightness on the jog home

F: OFF- R.I.C.E

S: OFF- R.I.C.E

S: OFF- R.I.C.E

57 for the week

I went with my kids to do a 1mi fun run but was unable to run with them. It made me feel a little better about my sorry self. (My oldest wanted to start with the younger kids since she "didn't care". Then about 400m in she took off to catch the big kids!) The TA is better than it was Fri but this is one of those injuries that can be a real ass-kicker if I don't respect it, given the cross talk between the tendon and the sheath surrounding it. I couldn't even contemplate biking/getting on the elliptical. So I am holding out hope that I can get a handle on it and start running soon. I think I will be able to do some cross training by tomorrow.

AT: Good to hear everything seems to be ok. A lesser man would be hunting for a injury lawyer. ;) I had a similar spill a while back but I tripped over my own dog's leash about a block off the Mall in DC. Huge crowd of people and I was a giant road rash. Despite my bleeding, I was so embarrassed that I hopped right back up and kept going. Just be sure to clean everything out (infection) despite how painful it might be!

tycobb wrote:

Question for you all:

Would you think it is cheating/unethical to have someone hand you water/gatorade at some point in the race? This year I am in Chicago so I am nowhere near any money but if it was a smaller marathon where I might place high would it be different. By handing water I mean someone in the crowd hand me a bottle to make it easier to drink on the run.

tycobb:

I'm not sure which race it was, but I was searching assistance on courses and I came across a story where the women's winner went to the third place finisher. One was DQ'd for a friend handing water on course, the other for wearing an Ipod. Maybe someone can elaborate.

By the way, you guys are animals. Very inspiring.

Life keeps sucking me away from getting a chance to post. Training is going fairly well though. I was hoping to get higher mileage this time, but it just isn't happening. Most of the loses are easy runs missed, so I'm not too stressed about it.

Goal: 2:48-50

Race: Columbus

Mon - off (planned)

Tues - 9 (5 w/u in 6:54's then 5x600 1:59's 2:15ish rec)

Wed - 15 (7ish)

Thurs - 6 (Easy 7:20's)

Fri - Off (unplanned, 6 easy scheduled, just got lazy)

Sat - 8.5 (2 w/u 5 "race effort" 30:00)

Sun - 18 (7:03ish - reverse Philly R-N-R course watching Ryan Hall get smoked)

Total - 56.5 (Should have been about 65, but only easy miles were missed) Feeling good about my workouts. The 5 miles on sat was in lieu of having a suitable race available and I ended up running it at the end of a full day at work. Fastest I have run that course in probably 23 years. Last week was about 67 and included 7 tempo in 6:18's in the dark and a 21 miler in 2:30 that finished with 2 miles in about 13:00. I wanted the higher miles this time to feel better about going for a 2-3 minute PR, but my workouts are starting to be better than during last years prep. I guess I'll see in a month or so how it worked out.

Looking good crew.

Race: Chicago

Time: sub-2:45

M- off

T- 11mi (last 1.5mi @ 6:10)

W- 11mi w/5mi tempo (29:50, HR 171)

Th- 7mi

F- 18mi

Sa- 5mi

Su- 5mi

Tot- 57mi/6d

Things continue to improve. I think the achilles is finally healed as I was able to do a workout and a long run this week with absolutely no pain. Too bad there are only three weeks left until the race.

I imagine that by now Pittsburgh Joe has give up on his wait for my next post. I have continued to lurk and to enjoy this weekly thread very much. I am still learning about running. I am glad that I waited to post because I have been reminded that there are many ways to achieve ones best results from your postings and by reviewing a few years of my logs.

In 1962, I ran my second and third marathons six weeks apart and ran each under 2:32. There were few races in those days, often no water or liquids were used by runners, often no splits, women did not run and there were few male runners. I was lucky to have run back then. My goal in races was to win and I went with the leaders whenever I could. There was often no thought of an even pace. I do not think even as many as ten or twelve marathon runners on this continent ran faster than 2:32 that year.

It did not take many years for competion and conditions to change, however. I note that by September of 1970, I had slipped out of top shape and find that my weekly mileage was as low as 20 miles a week often. And then it appears that I suddenly began to get hungry again. I was about to turn 35, which was then called being a sub-master, and I had not yet gone under 2:30.

By February of 1971, I was beginng to run near my best again and in the spring and early summer of 1971 I had my best streak of running on the roads. I ran 3 marathons in 9 weeks.

My training was very simple. I did not run high mileage. Most of tne miles I ran were on a 653 yard oval of grass. I ran as I felt and my speed work was racing. I raced when there were races to run. I raced nearly every other week. I just ran free and as I felt.

If the regular posters on this weekly thread don't have objections, I would like to post my training and races weekly and exactly 40 years after they happened.

Here is a sample of the first week as written in my log the day I did the running. (By the way my week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday.)

week ending 9/19/70--8, 10 hard, 4, 4, 4 = 30 miles.

(Two days off)

Goal: Maine (10.3)

Time: To Race Well

M - 8

T - 11

W - 14 - w/ 2x4mi @ 21:56, 21:49

T - 8

F - 8

S - 20 - last 10 @ 5:41 pace

S - 8

Total 77, with 7 day total on saturday @ 99

Pablo - wow we did almost the exact week

I felt good, after a terrible week last week, back on track with either rest, iron, or vitamin D kicking in. I'm looking forward to tapering and feeling fresh. Only one more real workout left.

Take it easy on the injuries, it seems like you can do much more damage than good at this point. Otherwise, looking good. MRB - That's an incredible 21 miler, seems like you're ready to roll.

Damn, a bunch of guys battling injuries. I am as well, but was not as smart as you all and fought my way through. If I need to, will take a few days off this week.

Race: Chicago

Goal: 2:36-2:38

Mon- 13/ AM: 8, PM: 5

Tue- 8

Wed- 13/ wanted to do 10 progressing to the last 3-5 at MP, but my right knee started bothering me bad when I picked it up, so ended up doing only 800 at MP.

Thur- 6/ had to stop and take a subway to work because my knee locked up and really hurt.

Fri- 15/ AM: 10, PM: 5... knee felt a little better

Sat- 10/ knee felt a little better

Sun- 20/ 5 up (6:45 pace), 9.5 alternating 800s at 5:42-5:45 pace and 800s at 6:15-6:25 pace. This was a hard workout and my knee really hurts whenever I go faster then easy run pace... not just the right, now, but both! I had to stop and stretch probably every 800 (fast and slow) after the first 2 miles... so not sure if I got the desired benefit. Regardless, it was hard. Ran 5 mile cooldown and was SPENT. Ran it pretty fast (I would guess my cd was at 6:30 pace), but still, completely shot.

Weekly Total: 85

Wanted closer to 95, but the Thur 6 rather then 15 (wanted 10 and 5) killed that. Was still able to get through the rest of the week, but now I need to really take care of the knees, PF, hip/hammy, etc. I'm hanging on by a thread, but I think that it will all be OK now that I'm going to start to bring the mileage down and start to focus on recovery. Going to dish out $$ and get a bunch of massages these next 3 weeks and take an ice bath a night. Hopefully this time next week the pains will start to be gone, and in 2 weeks they'll be non-existent so I can go into that marathon week without anything lingering.

One of my friends who I'm hoping to run with at Chicago just ran about 1:14:00 at Philly today. What do you guys think... can I run with him? I think so. I ran 1:11:00 at New Haven, which according to McMillan is equivalent of a 1:14:56, but I think with another 2 weeks of training and a little more confidence, I could have run close to 1:14:00 -1:14:30 today. I think we're close enough where its worth working together in Chi-town. Thoughts?

Monday: Easy 4 and 6 mile runs

Tuesday: 8.5 miles with 4 miles of 1:00 fast/slow and averaged 5:53 pace. I was gunning for six miles here but had dead legs from Sundays long session; Easy 6 miles

Wednesday: 10 miles medium; 5 miles easy

Thursday: Easy 6.5 and 4 mile runs

Friday: 9 miles with 6 mile a.t. at 5:27 pace; really happy with this workout and it felt like I was just cruising; easy 3 miles

Saturday: 7 miles easy

Sunday: 22 mile long run; 2nd longest run of my life and felt really good

Week Total= 91 miles

My legs were really trashed until Friday but I feel like I closed up well. I have four weeks until my half marathon, so I need to get really comfortable with 5:25-5:30 pace

Pablo: I find that if I don't get in a lot of running at well over 7:00 pace, I can't recover from my hard stuff. My shorter 2nd runs are usually 7:30-8:00 pace and my runs in between my faster days are usually 7:00-7:30 pace. It sounds like slowing down has sped you up.

running4IAM wrote:

tycobb:

I'm not sure which race it was, but I was searching assistance on courses and I came across a story where the women's winner went to the third place finisher. One was DQ'd for a friend handing water on course, the other for wearing an Ipod. Maybe someone can elaborate.

By the way, you guys are animals. Very inspiring.

I believe that was last year's Milwaukie (WI) Marathon. One of our running club members finished 5th woman there and we kept joking with her that the way they kept DQing ladies there, she could end up winning! :)

Everyone's training is looking awesome for the fall marathons. Hope it all pays off for each of you in a BIG way!

Richmond Nov 13

goal - run

Heel continues to heal.

Mon lift 60mins

Tues 7miles in 60mins

Wed off

Thurs lift/core work

Fri elliptical 60mins

Sat 7mi

Sund 12mi

Good to hear Orville saying his traing was uncomplicated!

Starting to feel I will be able to get enough quality workouts in for the marathon. Heel pain is almost completely gone, even when I put good pressure on last remaining 'hot spsot' on calcaneus. Should be able to get several 16+ mile long runs over the next couple weeks and build a little more endurance.

Good luck to all, especially you guys who got a little nicked up last week.

Race: Wineglass, 10/3 - NYC 11/7

Time: 2:49

Good weeks everyone. I've been a little preoccupied with a 209 mile relay race through New Hampshire. Our team came in 26th out of 429 teams. 6th out of 148 mixed open teams. We actually had 11 masters runners (masters is /> 30 for the relay) and one runner who was 28. We would have won the Mixed Masters division. Lots of lonely nighttime running on routes that are way hillier than I have run on.

I kept the mileage lower as I've been dealing with some lower back pain.

My week was:

M: 4.08 @ 8:34 AHR 122 (Last run with HRM, test run since back was painful)

T: 9.72 @ 7:59 (5 x 600m @ 2:10, 2:09, 2:07, 2:06, 2:04). Lower back still stiff, sore

W: 17.44 @ 7:54 (Moved long run to this day, legs were dead from start, since I ran a fastish 20 3 days earlier)

R: Travel to Littleton/Cannon Beach, NH

F 5:58pm: 1.25 @ 8:21 (Warmup waiting for our leg #6 runner, I was leg #7)

F 7:17pm: 7.25 @ 6:12 (Complete darkness, passed 4 runners, about 10 mile-HMP effort, hilly)

Sa 4:01am: 4.41 @ 6:21 (Complete darkness again, up, then down then up, passed 13 runners)

Sa 1:01pm: 2.44 @ 6:27 (Finally daytime, basically flat, legs warmed up with only 3/4 mile to go, passed 13)

Su: off, travel home.

Tot: 46.6

A little less than what I wanted (50-55), but with my aching back and RTB I'm happy with the week and the paces I ran during the relay. The paces never felt like 10k effort, more like HMP effort. It was tough going up 90-100ft hills but that is to be expected. I got off rather easy as compared to some of my relay teammates...

Wow, there's some interesting things going in the final stages of our marathon training...

NoleRunner - Nice week! The fact that you ran 7 @ 5:42 and felt smooth and relaxed tells me you should be good for at least 5:35's at Miracle Miles....maybe more like 5:30's.

Awkward Turtle - In the marathon, there is so such thing as "a sure thing", but the fact you were able to close out a 24-miler faster than your goal MP, is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. 2:40 is starting to look like a lock! 3 weeks is plenty enough time to heal the surface wounds...like Pittsburgh Joe suggested though, be sure to clean that crap out. Just be thankful this didn't happen 3 days before Chicago.

marmite - So sorry to hear about the tendonitis. FWIW, I went through almost the exact same thing before Boston this year. After a hard hill workout, my R foot was just throbbing in pain (my calves were already sore, and the hills just put everything over the edge). After 2 days of no running and a couple of days of only 4 miles each, I felt good as new. Now this was like 5 weeks out from Boston, so it wasn't near as close as you are...but just keep with the ice and medication, and you can hold it off. For something like this, icing with an ice cup works better than an ice pack...because you can better isolate the inflammed area. Hope you're feeling better now...did you sign up for Amsterdam?

tycobb - Personally, I don't see anything wrong with your family giving you water, gels, etc. In fact, last year at Chicago, I saw a number of guys getting stuff like that from family on the sidelines...no big deal in my opinion. But if you were running for place (in a smaller race) I wouldn't do it because you could get DQ'd and possibly lose out on some prize $$. It won't matter for a 2:40 guy in Chicago...hell, it probably wouldn't matter for a 2:20 guy in Chicago. I say if you have the means, go for it.

mrb - Sick tempo man! That tempo should make you realize how easy it will feel coming through the half at ~1:11 in Chicago. I don't think it's any coincidence you've dodged some bullets in this cycle, you've done a great job listening to your body and playing it safe.

Pittsburgh Joe - Stay vigilant on that injury! You've had a helluva last few months, and that's not going away anytime soon, just get to Chicago healthy...and you'll be set. BTW, I'm not very good with medical stuff, what's TA anyway...I'm assuming ankle or somewhere around that area?

VF runner - Missing easy runs are definitely the "better" runs to miss. I don't really advocate missing them, but if you must miss some runs, better those than workouts or long runs. And it's a good sign that your workouts are better now than this time last year...thats the definition of improvement!

FARM - Wow, no kidding...nearly the same week down to the seconds on that 2x4 workout!

3TM - I think you should be able to work together with that 1:14 guy. BUT, I still think you need to play it by ear, that is, don't stick with him if it doesn't feel comfortable early on. Believe me, it's Chicago, there's gonna be guys to run with no matter what pace you want to run.

blaznbison - You've been putting in some monster weeks recently...you're looking strong right now.