So Rudisha's new WR was not a neg split (49.0/52.1). What other WR's between 100m to marathon were not neg splits?
So Rudisha's new WR was not a neg split (49.0/52.1). What other WR's between 100m to marathon were not neg splits?
Probably Derek Claytons Marathon Record of 2:09 in 1968?
Viren's 10,000 in 1972 went out in 4:15 so unless they dramatically slowed they might have positive split that race.
not a track statistician wrote:
So Rudisha's new WR was not a neg split (49.0/52.1). What other WR's between 100m to marathon were not neg splits?
I think you'd find that very few WRs are run with negative splits.
Actually the recent trend for 10k is negative splits.
out of 38 WRs, 16 have negative splits, with the trend on modern times (I chose Clarke's 27:39) being 10 out of the last 17 WRs were negative.
10000m
Jean Bouin (1911)- 15:11.24 / 15:40.24 = 30:58.48 (3:09.36)
Paavo Nurmi (1921)- 15:06.1 / 15:34.1 = 30:40.2 (3:04.6)
Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:14.0 / 15:21.4 = 30:35.4 (2:55.4)
Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:00.12 / 15:23.0 = 30:23.12 (3:03.36)
Paavo Nurmi (1924)- 14:52.5 / 15:13.6 = 30:06.1 (N/A)
Ilmari Salminen (1937)- 15:01.0 / 15:04.5 = 30:05.5 (2:54.5)
Taisto Maki (1938)- 14:59.0 / 15:03.0 = 30:02.0 (2:57.0)
Taisto Maki (1939)- 14:58.2 / 14:54.4 = 29:52.6 (2:54.2)
Viljo Heino (1944)- 14:49.4 / 14:46.0 = 29:35.4 (2:50.8)
Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:39.5 / 14:48.7 = 29:28.2 (2:52.2)
Viljo Heino (1949)- 14:44.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:27.2 (2:49.8)
Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:38.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:21.2 (2:50.7)
Emil Zatopek (1950)- 14:37.0 / 14:25.6 = 29:02.6 (2:47.6)
Emil Zatopek (1953)- 14:34.8 / 14:26.8 = 29:01.6 (2:44.8)
Emil Zatopek (1954)- 14:27.6 / 14:26.6 = 28:54.2 (2:46.8)
Sandor Iharos (1956)- 14:14.2 / 14:28.5 = 28:42.7 (2:55.7)
Vladimir Kuts (1956)- 14:08.0 / 14:22.4 = 28:30.4 (2:47.9)
Pyotr Bolotnikov (1960)- 14:07.0 / 14:11.8 = 28:18.8 (2:43.8)
Pyotr Bolotnikov (1962)- 14:04.0 / 14:14.2 = 28:18.2 (2:43.7)
Ron Clarke (1963)- 14:06.5 / 14:09.1 = 28:15.6 (2:35.5)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 14:02.0 / 14:12.0 = 28:14.0 (2:41.4)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:45.0 / 13:54.4 = 27:39.4 (2:40.4)
Lasse Viren (1972)- 13:43.9 / 13:54.4 = 27:38.4 (2:29.2)
Dave Bedford (1973)- 13:39.4 / 13:51.4 = 27:30.8 (2:40.4)
Samson Kimobwa (1977)- 13:48.7 / 13:41.77 = 27:30.47 (2:44.6)
Henry Rono (1978)- 13:49.0 / 13:33.4 = 27:22.4 (2:36.9)
Fernando Mamede (1984)- 13:45.40 / 13:28.41 = 27:13.81 (2:32.72)
Arturo Barrios (1989)- 13:32.39 / 13:35.84 = 27:08.23 (2:35.67)
Richard Chelimo (1993)- 13:33.8 / 13:34.11 = 27:07.91 (2:39.4)
Yobes Ondieki (1993)- 13:28.05 / 13:30.33 = 26:58.38 (2:38.2)
William Sigei (1994)- 13:32.71 / 13:19.52 = 26:52.23 (2:33.9)
Haile Gebreselassie (1995)- 13:21.4 / 13:22.13 = 26:43.53 (2:34.7)
Salah Hissou (1996)- 13:25.45 / 13:12.63 = 26:38.08 (2:36.11)
Haile Gebreselassie (1997)- 13:16.74 / 13:14.58 = 26:31.32 (2:36.67)
Paul Tergat (1997)- 13:18.0 / 13:09.85 = 26:27.85 (2:35.75)
Haile Gebreselassie (1998)- 13:11.7 / 13:11.05 = 26:22.75 (2:31.2)
Kenenisa Bekele (2004)- 13:14.42 / 13:05.89 = 26:20.31 (2:31.97)
Kenesia Bekele (2005) 13:09.19 / 13:08.34 = 26:17.53 (2:32.44)
5000m
Arthur Robinson (1908)- 15:01.2
Hannes Kolehmainen (1912)- 14:36.6 (2:45.5, 3:01.5, 2:59, 2:54, 2:56.6)
Paavo Nurmi (1922)- 14:35.4
Paavo Nurmi (1924)- 14:28.2 (2:48.6, 2:54.6, 2:57.1, 2:56.7, 2:51.2)
Lauri Lehtinen (1932)- 14:16.9 (2:46.5, 2:54.0, 2:55.5, 2:57.5, 2:43.4)
Taisto Maki (1939)- 14:08.8 (2:46.0, 2:53.0, 2:53.5, 2:52.0, 2:44.3)
Emil Zatopek (1942)- 13:58.2 (2:40.0, 2:47.0, 2:51.5, 2:50.5, 2:49.2)
Vladimir Kuts (1954)- 13:56.6 (2:44.0, 2:52.7, 2:47.2, 2:48.4, 2:44.3)
Chris Chataway (1954)- 13:51.6 (2:41.5, 2:50.1, 2:44.9, 2:53.4, 2:41.7)
Vladimir Kuts (1954)- 13:51.2 (2:38.4, 2:52.4, 2:51.8, 2:45.0, 2:43.6)
Sandor Iharos (1955)- 13:50.8 (2:44.0, 2:49.4, 2:49.8, 2:46.4, 2:41.2)
Vladimir Kuts (1955)- 13:46.8 (2:42.0, 2:48.0, 2:46.0, 2:50.0, 2:40.8)
Sandor Iharos (1955)- 13:40.6 (2:42.0, 2:46.0, 2:48.0, 2:51.0, 2:33.6)
Gordon Pirie (1956)- 13:36.8 (2:36.0, 2:46.0, 2:47.0, 2:48.0, 2:39.8)
Vladimir Kuts (1957)- 13:35.0 (2:37.8, 2:46.5, 2:44.4, 2:44.2, 2:42.1)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:34.8 (2:43.8, 2:43.6, 2:44.4, 2:43.1, 2:39.8)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:33.6 (2:39.5, 2:41.9, 2:48.0, 2:46.1, 2:38.0)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:25.8 (2:39.1, 2:41.3, 2:43.7, 2:44.6, 2:37.0)
Kipchoge Keino (1965)- 13:24.2 (4:16.0, 4:17.8, 4:24.8)
Ron Clarke (1966)- 13:16.6 (2:40.2, 2:36.2, 2:41.0, 2:41.6, 2:37.6)
Lasse Viren (1972)- 13:16.4 (2:36.6, 2:41.9, 2:41.8, 2:42.3, 2:33.7)
Emiel Puttemans (1972)- 13:13.0 (2:33.7, 2:38.3, 2:39.2, 2:44.4, 2:37.4)
Dick Quax (1977)- 13:12.86 (2:39.21, 2:39.21, 2:37.51, 2:42.99, 2:33.94)
Henry Rono (1978)- 13:08.4 (2:42.0, 2:36.0, 2:39.5, 2:37.0, 2:33.9)
Henry Rono (1981)- 13:06.20 (2:38.5, 2:38.5, 2:38.0, 2:38.0, 2:33.2)
David Moorcroft (1982)- 13:00.41 (2:38.0, 2:34.6, 2:37.6, 2:38.5, 2:31.7)
Said Aouita (1985)- 13:00.40 (2:35.14, 2:38.68, 2:37.18, 2:41.16, 2:28.24)
Said Aoiuta (1987)- 12:58.39 (2:35.35, 2:37.68, 2:33.34, 2:39.68, 2:32.34)
Haile Gebrselassie (1994)- 12:56.96 (2:36.6, 2:37.1, 2:37.2, 2:37.4, 2:28.7)
Moses Kiptanui (1995)- 12:55.30 (2:35.2, 2:36.6, 2:35.2, 2:36.2, 2:32.1)
Haile Gebrselassie (1995)- 12:44.39 (2:34.3, 2:34.7, 2:34.0, 2:31.2, 2:30.2)
Haile Gebrselassie (1997)- 12:41.86 (2:34.6, 2:32.0, 2:31.6, 2:35.0, 2:28.7)
Daniel Komen (1997)- 12:39.74 (2:32.7, 2:32.7, 2:31.9, 2:31.21, 2:31.21)
Haile Gebrselassie (1998)- 12:39.36 (2:34.8, 2:31.6, 2:32.9, 2:32.8, 2:27.3)
Kenenisa Bekele (2004)- 12:37.35 (2:33.24, 2:32.23, 2:31.87, 2:30.59, 2:29.42)
10k splits
Jean Bouin (1911)- 15:11.24 / 15:40.24 = 30:58.48 (3:09.36)
Paavo Nurmi (1921)- 15:06.1 / 15:34.1 = 30:40.2 (3:04.6)
Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:14.0 / 15:21.4 = 30:35.4 (2:55.4)
Ville Ritola (1924)- 15:00.12 / 15:23.0 = 30:23.12 (3:03.36)
Paavo Nurmi (1924)- 14:52.5 / 15:13.6 = 30:06.1 (N/A)
Ilmari Salminen (1937)- 15:01.0 / 15:04.5 = 30:05.5 (2:54.5)
Taisto Maki (1938)- 14:59.0 / 15:03.0 = 30:02.0 (2:57.0)
Taisto Maki (1939)- 14:58.2 / 14:54.4 = 29:52.6 (2:54.2)
Viljo Heino (1944)- 14:49.4 / 14:46.0 = 29:35.4 (2:50.8)
Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:39.5 / 14:48.7 = 29:28.2 (2:52.2)
Viljo Heino (1949)- 14:44.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:27.2 (2:49.8)
Emil Zatopek (1949)- 14:38.0 / 14:43.2 = 29:21.2 (2:50.7)
Emil Zatopek (1950)- 14:37.0 / 14:25.6 = 29:02.6 (2:47.6)
Emil Zatopek (1953)- 14:34.8 / 14:26.8 = 29:01.6 (2:44.8)
Emil Zatopek (1954)- 14:27.6 / 14:26.6 = 28:54.2 (2:46.8)
Sandor Iharos (1956)- 14:14.2 / 14:28.5 = 28:42.7 (2:55.7)
Vladimir Kuts (1956)- 14:08.0 / 14:22.4 = 28:30.4 (2:47.9)
Pyotr Bolotnikov (1960)- 14:07.0 / 14:11.8 = 28:18.8 (2:43.8)
Pyotr Bolotnikov (1962)- 14:04.0 / 14:14.2 = 28:18.2 (2:43.7)
Ron Clarke (1963)- 14:06.5 / 14:09.1 = 28:15.6 (2:35.5)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 14:02.0 / 14:12.0 = 28:14.0 (2:41.4)
Ron Clarke (1965)- 13:45.0 / 13:54.4 = 27:39.4 (2:40.4)
Lasse Viren (1972)- 13:43.9 / 13:54.4 = 27:38.4 (2:29.2)
Dave Bedford (1973)- 13:39.4 / 13:51.4 = 27:30.8 (2:40.4)
Samson Kimobwa (1977)- 13:48.7 / 13:41.77 = 27:30.47 (2:44.6)
Henry Rono (1978)- 13:49.0 / 13:33.4 = 27:22.4 (2:36.9)
Fernando Mamede (1984)- 13:45.40 / 13:28.41 = 27:13.81 (2:32.72)
Arturo Barrios (1989)- 13:32.39 / 13:35.84 = 27:08.23 (2:35.67)
Richard Chelimo (1993)- 13:33.8 / 13:34.11 = 27:07.91 (2:39.4)
Yobes Ondieki (1993)- 13:28.05 / 13:30.33 = 26:58.38 (2:38.2)
William Sigei (1994)- 13:32.71 / 13:19.52 = 26:52.23 (2:33.9)
Haile Gebreselassie (1995)- 13:21.4 / 13:22.13 = 26:43.53 (2:34.7)
Salah Hissou (1996)- 13:25.45 / 13:12.63 = 26:38.08 (2:36.11)
Haile Gebreselassie (1997)- 13:16.74 / 13:14.58 = 26:31.32 (2:36.67)
Paul Tergat (1997)- 13:18.0 / 13:09.85 = 26:27.85 (2:35.75)
Haile Gebreselassie (1998)- 13:11.7 / 13:11.05 = 26:22.75 (2:31.2)
Kenenisa Bekele (2004)- 13:14.42 / 13:05.89 = 26:20.31 (2:31.97)
Kenesia Bekele (2005) 13:09.19 / 13:08.34 = 26:17.53 (2:32.44)
My bad. I meant to ask what *current* WR's were not neg splits.
I would disagree still. Other than the 400m and 800m, I suspect most WR's are neg splits in recent history.
Wendell Gee wrote:
I would disagree still. Other than the 400m and 800m, I suspect most WR's are neg splits in recent history.
I also was thinking most current WR's probably were neg splits. But I'm not sure which ones aren't. Someone on another thread mentioned the half WR is not a neg split either.
malmo wrote:
I think you'd find that very few WRs are run with negative splits.
No way. Nearly all records, be they personal, national, or world, are run with negative splits, save for 400/800, and sometimes 1500m. It's a physiological fact that a slight negative split is the fastest way to run. Plus, history doesn't lie. Look at all of those 5k and 10k races and the intermediate splits. 400/800 are an exception because the race is short enough for your inital "burst" off the line (relying on your phosphocreatine system) is a significant chunk of the race (~10% for a 1:41 800m). So that first 10% is "free," in that you can go as fast as you want and not incur any oxygen debt. And once you are going that fast, it is not efficient to slow down and then speed up again. The 1500m is right on the line.
fsadfsdafasdfsd wrote:
No way. Nearly all records, be they personal, national, or world, are run with negative splits, save for 400/800, and sometimes 1500m. It's a physiological fact that a slight negative split is the fastest way to run. Plus, history doesn't lie.
If you were so busy typing fsadfsdafasdfsdfsadfsdafasdfsd you could have read the next post below the one you responded to.
Malmo,
Where did you get those lists of splits? I've been googling and can find lists of outdoor/indoor/road M/F WR's, but I'm having a difficult time finding splits.
I don't remember.
fsadfsdafasdfsd wrote:the race is short enough for your inital "burst" off the line (relying on your phosphocreatine system) is a significant chunk of the race (~10% for a 1:41 800m). So that first 10% is "free," in that you can go as fast as you want and not incur any oxygen debt. And once you are going that fast, it is not efficient to slow down and then speed up again. The 1500m is right on the line.
i got medline
maybe i haven't looked enough, but you don't have to blast it all in 6s
it regenerates - it's an equilibrium reaction
i've seen no paper which says it can't be smoothly used over any race above 200m
malmo wrote:
I don't remember.
Wow. I stumped Malmo. That just made my day.
fsadfsdafasdfsd wrote:
400/800 are an exception because the race is short enough for your inital "burst" off the line (relying on your phosphocreatine system) is a significant chunk of the race (~10% for a 1:41 800m). So that first 10% is "free," in that you can go as fast as you want and not incur any oxygen debt. And once you are going that fast, it is not efficient to slow down and then speed up again. The 1500m is right on the line.
This is untrue. You should read more SJM.
This might take a while.
5000m WR = Bekele, Hengelo 2004, 12:37.35
1K splits = 2:33.24, 2:32.23, 2:31.87, 2:30.59, 2:29.42
Looks like a neg split
10000m WR = Bekele, Brussels 2005, 26:17.53
Splits = 13:09.19/13:08.34
Neg split.
Marathon WR = Geb, Berlin 2009, 2:03:59.
Splits = 1:02:03/1:01:56
Neg split.
3000m WR = Komen, Rieti 1996, 7:20.67
1K splits = 2:25.89, 2:27.29, 2:27.49
Doesn't look like a neg split:
57.5 (57.5) 400
1:56. (58.5) 800
2:25.89 (59.26) 1000
3:23.55 (57.66) 1400
4:23.46 (59.91) 1800
4:53.18 (29.72) 2000
5:21.83 (58.37 - 29.72/28.65) 2200
6:21.58 (59.75) 2600
7:20.67 (59.09) 3000
2 mile WR = Komen, Hetchel 1997, 7:58.61
Splits = 3:59.??/3:59.??
Not sure if it was pos or neg, probably only by a fraction of a second either way.
100m WR = Bolt, Berlin 2009, 9.58
Splits = 5.47/4.11
Neg split
200m WR = Bolt, Berlin 2009, 19.19
Splits = 9.92/9.27
Neg split
400m WR = M Johnson, Seville 1999, 43.18
Splits = 21.2/21.98
Pos split
mile WR = El Gourrouj, Rome 1999, 3:43.13
splits = 1:51.58/1:51.55
Neg split
1500m WR = El Gourrouj, Rome 1998, 3:26.00
400m split for the rabbit was 54.??
800m split for the rabbit (ElG in 3rd place) was 1:50.8
ElG's last lap was 53.2
Probably a neg split. A perfectly even pace at 800m would have been 1:49.866667
not a track statistician wrote:
100m WR = Bolt, Berlin 2009, 9.58
Splits = 5.47/4.11
Neg split
200m WR = Bolt, Berlin 2009, 19.19
Splits = 9.92/9.27
Neg split
400m WR = M Johnson, Seville 1999, 43.18
Splits = 21.2/21.98 Pos split
There's no way bolts splits were those!
not a track statistician wrote:
3000m WR = Komen, Rieti 1996, 7:20.67
1K splits = 2:25.89, 2:27.29, 2:27.49
Doesn't look like a neg split:
57.5 (57.5) 400
1:56. (58.5) 800
2:25.89 (59.26) 1000
3:23.55 (57.66) 1400
4:23.46 (59.91) 1800
4:53.18 (29.72) 2000
5:21.83 (58.37 - 29.72/28.65) 2200
6:21.58 (59.75) 2600
7:20.67 (59.09) 3000
That's straight up crazy.