Interview with Alberto Salazar and AW

What kind of fitness do you all think a 6 mile tempo at 5:00 pace followed by fast 200s and 8x800 at 2:13 indicates? (Al Sal mentioned focusing on strength, so I assume the 800s were run with minimal recovery. Galen reportedly ran 800s with 1:45 recovery, but I imagine they were quite a bit quicker then 2:13)

13:45??

I would say based off the 2:13's after the tempo, I would say he's more in the neighborhood of 13:30's maybe 13:20s

What I found most interesting about the article is the emphasis Salazar is placing on Webb's running form.

When running form education hit mainstream through the likes of Chi Running, Pose, and Born to Run there was a huge backlash, especially here on LetsRun. Many posters here stated that none of the elites worked on form, form doesn't matter, form cannot be changed, and that working on form will only lead to injury.

Well, now it is quite obvious that the top runners in the world do care about form, form does matter, and improvements in form will lead to less injury, improved efficiency and faster speeds.

This is why Salazar is one of the top coaches in the world. He is receptive to new information.

AW made me think andy wheating

illustrative of how times have changed

I don't think Salazar is having Webb do this:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_HillRunningTechniques.mov

Improving form is nothing new.

e;lmrv wrote:

Improving form is nothing new.

For the masses it is. The conventional discourse has always been just run miles and your body will figure it out. That was the primary advice given to runners for years. Some so called experts still promote this primitive way of thinking.

Ryan Miller wrote:

What I found most interesting about the article is the emphasis Salazar is placing on Webb's running form.

When running form education hit mainstream through the likes of Chi Running, Pose, and Born to Run there was a huge backlash, especially here on LetsRun. Many posters here stated that none of the elites worked on form, form doesn't matter, form cannot be changed, and that working on form will only lead to injury.

That's not running form, that's CRAP. All that stuff about leaning forward and not pushing. If you read carefully, you will see that Salazar is teaching very conventional technique to at least Dathan: Leaning forward LESS and striking more on the forefoot.

And college and elite running programs DO stress form. They (We) do it through drills. Even the Ethiopians do this.

See the photos of Seb Coe and Aouita in BTFDR. That's the kind of form to stress, and it seems that Salazar is doing it right.

The workouts, though, seem to be off from what Webb used to be doing. Webb was doing 10-12 MILE interval sessions twice a week. Coe did 20X200 in 27-28 (with 45 sec rest) and the last 2 in 22-23...before the start of the season. Webb seems to be well off from where he was, but maybe he can't do the sessions he used to (injuries).

webb never did 10-12mi interval sessions.

Big G wrote:

I would say based off the 2:13's after the tempo, I would say he's more in the neighborhood of 13:30's maybe 13:20s

You are way off.

"webb never did 10-12mi interval sessions."

You are correct, he reportedly did up to 8000 METERS of work...4.98 miles is a long ways from 10-12 miles of interval work. The only time he even did 8000 meters of work was during the '08 year when he was admittedly over trained.

Noone is saying he is back in 1:43/3:46/13:10 shape...but it does appear he is rounding into form. I, for one, cant wait to see a fit Webb toe the line. His talent is undeniable.

malmo wrote:

Big G wrote:

I would say based off the 2:13's after the tempo, I would say he's more in the neighborhood of 13:30's maybe 13:20s

You are way off.

A 6 mile tempo on the grass and 5 minute pace and several 200s at :28 or so is a nice workout, but almost impossible to use as an indicator of fitness for a guy like webb. I'll say this, Malmo is right. To me that workout could indicate anywhere from 13:50-14:10. My guess is they are being conservative however and not pushing the evelope yet. He's probably ready for faster than that. He's just rounding into form.

Interesting quote from Salazar in the article:

"The Kenyans all look different, and many of them don't last long. But when you look at the top Ethiopians, they have impeccable form and they also have long careers.

There has to be one best way of running. It's got to be like a law of physics. And if you deviate too much from that–the way I did in my career–it can be a big handicap."

Neurological adaptations are pretty well accepted in physiology. It would be hard to argue there isn't a learning component in running.

Runners and coaches have always thought about form, some as obsessive and twitchy as Alberto. Of course he's wrong about the force plates, the misdirected feet and the arm carriage fixation, but he wont change except for the worse.

uhhhhhhh wrote:

AW made me think andy wheating

illustrative of how times have changed

When I saw Alberto and AW, I figured it was Athletics West. After further consideration, I figured it was Andrew Wheating. Imagine my surprise when I clicked on in.

?? wrote:

"webb never did 10-12mi interval sessions."

You are correct, he reportedly did up to 8000 METERS of work...4.98 miles is a long ways from 10-12 miles of interval work. The only time he even did 8000 meters of work was during the '08 year when he was admittedly over trained.

Noone is saying he is back in 1:43/3:46/13:10 shape...but it does appear he is rounding into form. I, for one, cant wait to see a fit Webb toe the line. His talent is undeniable.

I think there was an interview on runningtimes that said Webb did up to 12,000m of intervals when he was training for Cross in 2004-2006, as well as the 10000m he did. He then said he switched to 8000m of intervals, and I remember him saying "8000m is still a lot of 400s"

Coach D wrote:

And college and elite running programs DO stress form. They (We) do it through drills. Even the Ethiopians do this.

.

According to Amby Burfoot, Geb never had to practice his stride. He was born with it.

"The truth is that Haile's stride is a gift delivered to him the day he was born. He has a combination of muscle-fiber types, tendon springs, and body-length ratios that are unique to him. He never had to practice his running form; it's simply the way he runs because it's the way he was born to run." - Amby Burfoot

So we have Coach B saying that Ethiopians do drills to improve form and we have Amby Burfoot saying flat out in plain english - "He (Geb) never had to practice his running form"

What an insult to Haile's great career.

Comments like Amby's were the norm a few years ago.

I understand and agree that many college coaches stress form and do drills to improve mechanics but for some strange reason the importance of form has not been communicated to the masses until recently (via Chi,Pose etc)

Furthermore, when it was communicated there was a HUGE resistance against the simple point that form is important.

I'm not here to debate how people should run, but to simply make the point that form is important in preventing injury, generating speed, and overall efficiency.

It's amazing how short people's memories are. Coming on Letsrun acting like good running form has been top of mind for years, when in reality, it entered into the mainstream discussion with the release of Pose and Chi, and gained more steam with the release of Born To Run.

Didnt' read the article. But I can almost guarantee that the only thing Salazar and Webb are focused on right now is simply keeping healthy while training. Do that and the fast times will come in another year or two.

All stride and agility debate aside, more intel is in from Camp Al Salazar.

Monday afternoon Webb ran a 3200 meter time trial in 8:37. I know 8:37 isnt anything to get excited about for an elite, but Webb has only been training for a month. Al Sal said he expected to see leaps and bounds in his fitness over the next few weeks, so this is a great sign!

Knowing about that in addition to his workouts, what does everyone think he will run in 2 weeks??

GO WEBB

It's a pretty severe stretch to say any of that is an insult to Haile's career.