Kiprop 10k conversion

Kiprop already ran 27'26"98 in Nairobi during Kenyan National Champs, and Geoffrey Mutai less than 27'28".

It's not possible to have a precise idea about some conversion, because altitude has an individual effect also among Kenyans. In the past, I had some athlete like John Korir able to win several times National and/or Trials, going to OG in Sydney when 19y old, that was not able running at sea level faster than 30" (from 27'50" to 27'20"), till 2002, when, after a period of 3 weeks of training in Torino, at sea level, ran 26'52".

Other athletes, like Mark Bett (able running 26'52") and Nicholas Kemboi (26'30"), never were good in competitions in altitude.

Moses Mosop, for example, always was very good running in altitude. But what does it means "altitude" ? Don't forget that Nairobi is 1700m, and some athlete (Mosop, for example) comes from 3100m. For these athletes, Nairobi is "almost" sea level. For athletes training in Nairobi, this is altitude.

When Kenyans go to compete at sea level, they don't have any problem also if the competition is after 4-7 days (the worst period for competing in case of an athlete living at sea level, training for 3-4 weeks in altitude and going back). Instead, also for them there is the need of a short period of adaptation, going back TO altitude from sea level, using long and easy run only, before coming back to intensive training.

We had in the past some big surprise during Trials for that reason. In 1996, Daniel Komen was able to beat the WR of 5000m few days before Kenyan Trials for OG. He went back to altitude only one week before the competition, and was not able to qualify.

In this case, Wilson and Geoffrey had all their training in Kenya (their last competition at sea level was for Wilson Prague Marathon on 9th of May, for Geoffrey Rotterdam Marathon in April).

I think they can run about 26'40" in a race at sea level, but I think also they can run 27'10" / 27'15" in altitude, with a race having pacers, run at even pace (in Nairobi, the two half were 14'04" + 13'29").

Wow. Thanks for the reply Coach.

Very interesting comment on return back to altitude and racing (eg Komen's experience).

Very interesting Mr. Canova.

How many athletes do you coach or work with right now that you think could run roughly 26:40 (+/-)???

How many of them are track men specifically or how many race on the road primarily?

Just curious because other than the Cardinal Invite las May there are no fast 10K's this year and I know of at least one American who would like to be in a 10K that goes at 27:00 pace or better.

I think that, at the moment, I can have 2 athletes only with the possibility to run under 26'45" : Moses Mosop and Wilson Kiprop. The fact is that now is difficult to prepare specifically somebody for the distance, because there are no more 10000m on track in top meetings (in the last two years, the classic Hengelo and Bruxelles canceled the event).

So, for an athlete looking for an economical profession (of course, running not only, but also, for money), there are two options only :

a) He can try to move, with more speed, to 5000m (and the preparation is very different, if you want to reach your max possibility), for having more opportunities of competing

b) He can try to move, with longer endurance, to HM (and, after a short period, full marathon), where there is a better market.

In both the cases, the preparation for 10000m cannot be the best.

The case of Wilson Kiprop and Geoffrey Mutai are different. Geoffrey already won very good money in his Marathon of April (under 2:05:00), and preparing 10 km between two marathons is a technical choice, in this case aided by the fact that Geoffrey never was in National Team, and the goal to represent his Country at home in African Championships was a strong motivation making him proud and happy.

For Wilson, it was a technical choice, but we were surprised for the technical level he was able to reach.

Probably, he's not yet a full marathon runner (he's only 23), and we can explore his possibility in 10000m while we build his attitude for becoming a top marathon runner. The first step can be already the fact he has to represent, on 4th September in Split (Croatia), the African Team in the Continental Cup, on the distance of 5000m.

interestingly, a conversion i been trying for 1500 - M, for "equivalent power output" ( like an iaaf tables, but not varying annually on bullshit yearly stats basis ) yields good results

speed Y = speed X * ( distance X / distance Y )^ 0.06917

( based on 3^0.5 = 1.732 increase in power on doubling distance, which is the physics i've seen bandied about for "perfect" machines - elite athletes are close to this concept )

2"06'00 ->27'02

2"05'30 ->26'56

2"05'00 ->26'49

2"04'30 ->26'43

2"04'00 ->26'37

2"03'30 ->26'30

2"03'00 ->26'24

a 2"05.00 does look = to a 26'49 if the guy coud "perfectly" run same power output for both ( or maybe state, he has same "abilty" for both events )

Coach,

Can you please elaborate on how training for the 5k is "very differen" from the 10k if a runner wants to reach maximal performance?

What is the biggest difference in training for each event and what can be done to increase a runner's fitness is for the specific event? (10k; 5k)

Thanks for everything you post. It's very informative and interesting.

Thanks for that.

That kind of explains why we don't see E. Africans running the sub 26:50 marks over the past several years, can't blame them if there is no money for it.

It's a shame since the U.S. has a couple guys who could probably target 26:50 in a good 10,000 in Europe as well as Kenyan-American Sam Chelanga.

I guess the chances will be few and far between though if they cannot get a big 10,000 in Europe next year.

It's a real shame that there are no good 10000s this year. It seems to me this would be the year to do it. No champs to worry about so get ready and bust out a big one. If you get fried in the process and cannot return to form afterward, so be it...no Championships to miss out on.

Sure Nike can put together a 10k on the west coast any time they want. Bring in a few Kenyans/Ethiopians.

The first think I have to explain to Kenyan athletes is that doesn't exist a "GENERAL SHAPE", but a "GENERAL EFFICIENCY". When you have this, you can build your "SPECIFIC SHAPE". This means that an athlete can be in top shape for a distance, and out of shape for another.

For example, when a Marathon runner is able to better his PB in HM, many times people think he can be in top shape for his marathon. This is true only if, PREPARING THE LONG DISTANCE (running high volume, long fast run between 30 and 38 km, specific marathon speed endurance), he his also able to improve his time on a shorter distance. But, normally, athletes speak about a different training, in which THEY REPLACE WITH SOME TRAINING OF SHORT SPEED A PART OF TRAINING OF SPECIFIC MARATHON ENDURANCE. In this case (and is the most part of times), when I see an athlete running a HM very fast inside 4 weeks before the marathon, I CANCEL DIRECTLY THAT ATHLETE FROM THE LIST OF THE WINNERS, because NOT prepared for the distance.

The same thing happens for all the events, including sprint. When you have a "launched phase" very strong, for example, in 100m and in 200m, these two phases don't depend on the same quality. The final 30-40m in 100m depend on your "stiffness", your reactivity, your running technique, your ability in general relaxation. This is a "technical factor", and you can work years for improving in that direction. But, in 200m, your final depends on metabolic factors, because you go to produce and to run with a lot of lactate, growing step after step, after the first turn. So, your ability in extending your speed depends partially on your basic talent, but in higher percentage on your specific metabolic training.

You can see what happened (this is in the history of training) when many top runners of 400m decided to use one season for "increasing their speed". In this case, their problem was not WHAT THEY DID IN THEIR TRAINING, but WHAT THEY DIDN'T USE. If, for example, before they used running some more volume at intensity a little bit lower, with sometime a distance longer than the race (for example, 500m), when they decided to increase their speed, they cancelled everything longer than 300m, running faster, reducing in this case the ability in removing from their muscles a part of produced lactate, in short time. At the end, they could run (not always) a little bit faster in 200m (it was not the case, for example, of Jeremy Wariner and Sonya Richards in 2008), BUT WERE NO MORE ABLE TO FINISH FAST THE LAST 50 METERS, BECAUSE NOT TRAINED RUNNING WITH HIGH CONCENTRATION OF LACTATE IN THEIR MUSCLES. We must always remember than EVERY EXTENSION OF THE SPEED IS POSSIBLE AT CHARGE OF THE METABOLIC SYSTEM. In other words, one thing is to increase the power of the engine for running faster, another to increase the duration of the same speed you have. A complete training must look at both the solutions in the same time, but there is a limit beyond which you can improve, on the mecanical side and working for increasing the strength. The possibility to EXTEND your attitude can give to every athlete more chances (working for the metabolic system) than to INCREASE your power.

When you go to speak about the specific question (difference between training for 10000m and 5000m), we must have clear in our mind the phylosophy I explained above.

You cant prepare your SPECIFIC ENDURANCE (that includes also your "mental" endurance) WITHOUT USING LONG INTERVALS on track, and LONG VERY FAST CONTINUE RUN (for example, 10 miles), that normally are not part of the preparation for 5000m. The normal preparation for 5000m, for athletes having a very high Aerobic Power, is not very much different from the preparation for 1500m, and it's not a case that we find many top runners in the list all-time in 1500 and 5000m (for example, athletes like Gunder Haegg, Sandor Iharos, Said Aouita were WR holders in both the events, and Moorcroft, Maree and many others were at the top). So, the "fast type" of specialists of 1500 can run 800 / 1500, arriving only at the end of their career (not always) to 3000m, while the "resistant type" of specialists can run 1500 / 5000, trying 10000m like extreme and, in any case, casual option.

When Bekele beated the WR in Bruxelles in 2005, his last workout, in St. Moritz (1,800m of altitude) was 4 x 2000m in 5'10" / 5'12" with 4' recovery, plus 1 x 1000m in 2'27". The same type of training was used, years before, by Salvatore Antibo, of course slower than Bekele. Personally, I remember a training I did with Nicholas Kemboi, before he ran 26'30" in 2003, always in St. Moritz, with 5 x 2000m in 5'25" with normal racing shoes (no spikes), using between every test (after 2' recovery) 6 times 60m sprint uphill (there is a short hill 200m far from the track), and after this other 2' recovery. At the end, he put spikes, for running 1000m progressive in 2'29", with 66" the first lap and 1'23" the last 600m.

I remember also some other story. For example, in 2004 during Brussels meeting, when Shaheen bettered the WR of steeple, and soon after in 3000m Kipchoge won beating Kwalia able running 7'28", 10000m was the last event. When I went in the warm-up area, I met Richard Limo, that asked me how the race was prepared, and I answer that we had rabbits for a passage a little bit faster than 13'30", because I had the goal with my athletes (Ahmed Hassan, Mark Bett, John Korir) to run under 27', like Charles Kamathi. Richard told me "very ok, it's also my goal, because I'm in shape". In the race, the split was 13'29" at 5000m, and the pace was even till 7 km. Limo was still in the leading group. After that, he was no longer able to stay. At the end, Ahmed Hassan won with 26'58", Kamathi second in 26'59", Bett third 27'02", and Limo... was lapped in 28'12" ! One week later, he won in Berlin the race of 5000 in 12'56". SO, HE WAS REALLY IN SHAPE, but for 5000, not 10000m.....

Thank you so much for this Renato! I truly appreciate everything you post, thank you for your time!

Anyway the conversion based on the runworks calculator says 26:49 at sea level for 27:32 at 5400 feet.

Thanks Canova for your thoughts and insights. It always feels like being in a real-time learning environment reading your post. Your philosophy and methodology have greatly improved my experience of running and my fitness level.

The insights that Mr. Canova brings to us are really incredible.

Jason