What are some Key workouts to indicate 2:36-2:38 marathon fitness?

Check out the (weekly) "Marathon Training" threads - there are a lot of guys looking to run about that pace, and some of them have before, as well.

26xmile at around 6minute pace.

Done consecutively.

I never had any sort of key workouts at all before I ran 2:35. I just ran a lot and a good bit of it was around 6:00 pace or better. I'd say doing a 17-20 mile run at 6:00 pace or so would be a good indicator.

to HRE: how much mileage was alot? did you ever change your training to include more marathon specific workouts? if so how did this affect your races? I ask because I find myself in a similar situation, ran low 2:30s off about 60 mpw (this is post-college when I was running more than 60 every week and doing actual workouts) at whatever pace I was feeling with no workouts except a long run of 18-20 miles. Looking to do some mroe serious training and wondering what might be a good goal.

I think your 20K race will be a good indicator, especially since you'll have plenty of time to recover and resume training for the marathon. I ran 2:38 last year and raced a 25k three weeks out in 1:31. That equates to 2:40+, but because it was so close to the marathon, I wasn't going all out. Instead, I started at 5:55-6:00 pace, cranked it down under 5:50 for the last 10K, and felt relaxed and in control through to the finish. That was probably the best indicator that I was ready, as a few of my tempo runs and workouts didn't go very well, and my 20-mile long run was kind of a disaster.

I will say that I used the Macmillan calculator to come up with target paces for workouts and it worked pretty well for me. One workout that did go well was a tempo run consisting of 4k at 10 mile pace, a 1k jog, and 3k at 10k pace (a couple miles on each side for warmup and cooldown). And FWIW, I didn't run anywhere close to 6:00 pace unless I was doing a tempo run or VO2 max work... my long runs were 6:45-7:00/mile.

30k at 6:00 pace.

Lots of funny stuff happens to the body after about 15-20 miles. A nice fast 20k or half-marathon is good...but I've seen 1:11 guys run anywhere from 2:30 to 2:40 depending on where that race was in their training and how much they tapered for that 20k/half.

I'd say do 30k at 6:00 pace 3 weeks before you marathon. Make that your last long run.

Alan

A lot depended on the time of year. Usually summers were 120-150 a week and the rest of the year was 100-115 with one spirt around Christmas that went back to 120 or more.

I thought that all of what I did was marathon specific. Pretty much all of my runs were at whatever my marathon pace was at any particular time. I had this idea that if I was ging to run 26 miles at a given pace I should be able to run 10-15 miles at that pace pretty much daily. Of course that allowed for warming up and for some days that were total crap and nowhere near my usual pace, but I always sort of had Ron Clarke and Derek Clayton as my models.

But I never decided to run at a particular pace. I just had a feel for what seemed a good effort and did that as much as possible. Over the years it got much, much, quicker. And over several more years it's gotten much, much slower.

run 42k in around 2 hours 36-38 and that should indicate if you can do it

You ran 120 to 150 miles a week with "pretty much all" of the pace at 2:36 to 2:38 marathon pace?

Bullshit.

i dont know much about marathon training, but I've heard there are people who run 1:15-1:16ish who break 2:40...from the sound of it 1:11 is plenty good enough to be there, no?

Juddlebugs wrote:

i dont know much about marathon training, but I've heard there are people who run 1:15-1:16ish who break 2:40...from the sound of it 1:11 is plenty good enough to be there, no?

or unless you arent that consistent with the miles...i knew some 1:10-1:11 half guys who barely cracked 2:40 at Boston Marathon though..

Thanks guys... though not every post was all that helpful, some of you were very much so.

I think that 20k will be pretty telling. Runningart, I agree that its fairly short to get a good sense, but having run a marathon already, and knowing what that last 7 miles feels like and what my training was like leading up to that, I feel pretty confident in that being a decent predictor. Wouldn't mind a few other gauges, though.

Go run a 33-34 minute 10K

2.5-3 weeks before chicago, run the following:

4 mile warmup

5 miles at 6:00

400m jog

5 miles at 5:55

400m jog

5 miles at 5:50

Take fluids, gatorade, gel... just as you will in Chicago.

Recover well afterwards. This should be your last truly heavy workout.

At the peak of marathon training I did 20 miles in 6 min/miling. At that time I was in 1:14 flat HM shape and then did 1:36:xx for the marathon.

I think that was the best indicator. I did track-work each week but didn't find it as good a predictor of marathon ability.

Brit, what was your weekly average mileage around this time?

To be good at the marathon I believe most runners have to focus just on the marathon. Other races are nothing more than training or tune-ups.

That's been my experience anyway. My best marathons, 2:32-33 range, have always come that way.

Alan

Some Coked Up Brit wrote:

At the peak of marathon training I did 20 miles in 6 min/miling. At that time I was in 1:14 flat HM shape and then did 1:36:xx for the marathon.

I think that was the best indicator. I did track-work each week but didn't find it as good a predictor of marathon ability.

I believe you meant to place a 2 where you had 1 but I do agree with all the posters who say you need to run 6 minute pace at a longer distance than 20k. I would do 20 miles at 6 minute EVEN pace. That is the key, not to start at 5:40 or be all over the place with pacing. Your body needs to feel the pace for a longer distance. You run 20 at 6 pace and you will hit your goal in the marathon, all other things being equal like the weather, even pacing and proper tapering/diet.

I am NOT planning to race a 20k at 6:00 pace! I am planning to race a 20k, in the heat of marathon training, with 5 weeks to go at closer to 5:40 pace. I also am planning on a 13 mile MP run in the middle of 20 and a 15 mile MP run in the middle of 22 throughout the cycle. I have lots of other long workouts planned. Not looking for training advice. Just an idea of what paces on some of these workouts should I be hitting to get an idea that I can run 6:00 pace for the marathon. Nothing more, nothing less.