Weight Training

P90X- just dumb bells, pushups and chin ups

If you do it right you won't put on weight.

You won't find ONE right way to go about it.

Traditionally, and this was the case when I was running in college, you would do nautilus machines for about 30 minutes. 60s lift, change machines, 60s lift, continue. Basically mutliple sets of 10-15 reps for 6-8 exercises.

This traditional way of thinking is flawed though as it places uneeded training volume on a body that is already stressed from running. Lifting in this way it is also more likely you will add muscle if you are eating enough.

So, limit over fatigue, limit muscle hypertrophy, lift low volume, high load.

All exercises, light warmups, then 1 work set of 4-6 reps:

Squat

Bench

Row

Lunge

Shoulder Press

Lat Pulldown

Example: Squat, 45x10, 95x5, 135x5, 165x5

Use the search button. I've written at length on the topic.

If you want a program used by an elite athlete, Hicham El Guerrouj has a program out there. Also, Jay Johnson has some videos of some of his better athletes doing various routines.

Alan

An example of El Gerrougj weightlifting:

Strength work. He works on the main muscle groups, but the coach believes in work the small ones as well, since those that have major influence in the posture. He utilizes free weights and special gym apparatus. During this stage he dose the following exercises:

Half-squat 6 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar

Half-squat 4 x 16 reps with 30 kg bar

Squat 4 x 16 reps with 20 kg bar

In machines/apparatus:

Hamstrings 4 x 16 reps

Quadriceps 4 x 16 reps

Abductors 4 x 16 reps

Adductors 4 x 16 reps

Lunges 4 x 20 reps with 25 kg bar

Step-up 1 x 20 reps with 30 kg bar with each leg

Abdominal 300-400 reps

Back 300-400 reps

Power.

He does once a week up-hills 10 x 300 m and horizontal jumps and vertical jumps over hurdles.

My thinking is you don't need to do leg weights while training for long distance. You work your legs plenty already, especially if you are running hills. Save the lower body workouts for off season. Then before another marathon training cycle you could do 4 to 6 weeks of weights, or other resistance, on your legs.

You only have so much time an energy, so don't add too much to your training load. Rest is more important than adding leg resistance exercise. If you want to do leg weights during your training buildup, i'd do them after a run with a rest day afterwards (do core and/or upper body circuits the next day, but don't work the legs hard). In other words, you torch the legs but let them recover afterwards. If you work your legs too much, and don't allow them to recover, you'll rob from your key runs. That's self defeating.

I think most runners neglect their upper bodies though. Some strength in the arms and shoulders will give you a more powerful and enduring stride, since your arm swing drives your hips. You can do a weight circuit but make it low weight/high reps. Say 20 rep sets. If warmed up you can "explode" against the resistance, then lower the weights slowly (eccentric contraction). A 20 to 30 minute circuit done twice a week is plenty. I wouldn't do it immediately before a key workout.

An alternative is to Deep water run. It's a great substitute for "recovery" (i.e. junk)runs and the best substitute for running when you are injured. Run an hour in the water and think how many times the arms have to push back and forth against resistance. That's a lot of reps, even though the resistance isn't great. If you have a powerful arm swing in water, think how good it will be when the only resistance is air.

Always include a core workout in your training. Do it all year around.

Keep it simple..do what works! Keep the reps low, weight high. You build muscular endurance from your endurance work and hills. What you need is strength ( help efficiency, Power). Work major muscle groups on one day, G.S. stuff the next. When strength reaches an acceptable level, Power training is what is most important. Reps done within 10-15 secs, complete recovery.

Don't worry about getting big...impossible with running distance. Unless you eat a Sh*t ton and even then doubtful. Most distance runners have "hard gainer" genetics. You won't gain weight...just strength!

The very last page describes Craig Mottram doing "core" training but I've seen it mentioned elsewhere he does upper body training and he was doing lateral dumbbell raises in a video I saw.

What would a 30-45min "core" session for these guys look like?

I wish distance runners would get with good strength coaches.

Standing or seated lateral raises are no better than bicep curls, in that they are pointless for most athletes.

A variation of a lateral raise called a Lateral Throw would be much more advantageous:

About 1:20 in, the "total body side lateral throw":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7mvXaCbmY

Alan

Keep it simpler. Run hills. They'll give you the leg strength you need. 4 rep sets with big weights won't help you on a hilly course. But they might lead to an injury that later in life leads to an arthritic joint.

I've been there an know. I'm 63, taught university anatomy, and have been lifting weights for 50 years. I used to lift 4 to 6 rep sets for power. I know the theory. It was written by people who rarely, if ever, ran.

I also see the 55 and 60 year old power lifters limping around the gym. So what you say. Who cares about old guys. You will when you're that age and an arthritic hip keeps you from running. Two months ago, In my last trail marathon, I won my age group by over an hour. I also beat at least 2/3 of the 20, 30, 40, 50 year old males. Today, I can't run because of an arthritic hip (actually both hips, my sacroiliac joints and lower back) and have pain shooting down my groin into my testicle when I try. Did lifting do it? Running? Who knows, but I know lifting big weight on my legs didn't help my running or my joints.

4 reps might give you a powerful 4 steps. What good is that unless your race is 100 yards or less? It's not specific to running.

Taking Alan's advice from previous threads I've started lifting twice per week, 6 exercises per session. Something like this:

Day 1

Squat

Machine hamstring curl

Pullups

Seated dumbbell press

Hanging leg raises

Reverse situps

Day 2 (2-4 days after Day 1)

Stiff-legged deadlift

Machine quad extension

Bench press

Cable row

Situps

Reverse situps

The logic of it is this:

- You're doing the most taxing workout first - the multi-joint leg exercise.

- Then you do a lighter machine leg lift with the opposing muscle group.

- Then you do the most taxing upper body workout - pullups or bench.

- Then you do the lighter upper body lift of the opposing muscle group.

- Each week you're doing 4 upper body exercises - pushing and pulling in the horizontal and vertical planes.

- Then finishing each workout with some core - both sides of the body, front and back. I may need to add in some lateral core stuff at some point, not sure.

I haven't noticed any real changes or benefits yet. I'll keep you posted.

nope none at all. to excel at distance running requires living a sacrificial lifestyle and looking good is one thing you have to pitch. run run and run some more.

p.s. you'll have to live with gettin ur as kicked in school too

SRY SRY SRY wrote:

p.s. you'll have to live with gettin ur as kicked in school too

Lame troll.

Bodypump

I Respect your experience on the topic. As to quote one of my mentors "There are many roads to Rome". I understand the arthritis view point. Maybe you took my short post out of context. Once sufficient strength is reached most Heavy lifting is removed (though comes in and out in phases, depending on time of year) and Power lifting is the main focus...When I say "power lifting" I don't mean how most of the U.S. perceives power lifting as in lets see how much we can bench or squat...or even clean. (Though clean numbers give me more info) I am talking about "Power" ex: Squat Jumps (35-40% BW) 6x5 with complete rec., Medball throws, Speed squats (light weight).

To touch on your arthritis comment, I totally agree, I see the same thing in my gym and others. A lot of it has to do with collagen fibers, when those Power lifting old timers were maxing their squat and bench they were thickening their Collagen fibers (ligaments, connective tissues..yada yada) Hence problems moving, and maybe pain or arthritis.

If you do the power lifting I explained above and concentrated on speed of movement. You will gain strength or usable strength (power) with out the thickening of the collagen fibers.

I say this as it pertaining to weight lifting for Distance runners. Running is always primary and lifting is used as supplementation. If you want to get better at running ...you have to run! Weight lifting is just a means for improving power and efficiency.

Small Town

I can tell you're a really knowledgeable guy. Both a scholar and an athlete :). And a gentleman (your mama should be proud :)).

I worry more about somebody lifting more than they can correctly handle at that point in time and hurting a joint. I'm not just talking about a frail runner. If you work to exhaustion, even a paperweight becomes heavy.

I'd also worry about old guys/gals (inelastic tendons and ligaments) or sedentary people going right into heavy weights or ballistic movements.

A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed a "trainer" who was putting a pot bellied 75 year old woman through an Olympic weight routine. Full squats with maximum flexion at the knees and a curved back. Dead lifts. He's going to cripple the woman.

Small Town

I can tell you're a really knowledgeable guy. Both a scholar and an athlete :). And a gentleman (your mama should be proud :)).

I worry more about somebody lifting more than they can correctly handle at that point in time and hurting a joint. I'm not just talking about a frail runner. If you work to exhaustion, even a paperweight becomes heavy.

I'd also worry about old guys/gals (inelastic tendons and ligaments) or sedentary people going right into heavy weights or ballistic movements.

A couple of weeks ago, I witnessed a "trainer" who was putting a pot bellied 75 year old woman through an Olympic weight routine. Full squats with maximum flexion at the knees and a curved back. Dead lifts. He's going to cripple the woman.

I would eliminate the hamstring curl and quad extension and do either a split squat or step up.Alan