Long runs are highly overrated

"Even if a runner needs more mileage, the long run only adds more mileage"

Congrats, you want a cookie for that astonishing piece of wisdom???

At what point did you drop your long run and start replacing it with speed? Was it the same season, was it at the end of the season, how long have you been doing your long run before you dropped it? Before you get any one to buy into your theory you need to give the specifics. How many years have you been running, how consistently over those years was your mileage, how far were your long runs. You need to give us context.

thought police wrote:

"Even if a runner needs more mileage, the long run only adds more mileage"

Congrats, you want a cookie for that astonishing piece of wisdom???

Taken entirely out of context. My point is that it only adds mileage. There's no magic inherent just because it's a long run. Take the amount of your long run, add it to your other runs instead of doing the long run, and you get the same benefit.

Everyone is different, so maybe that works best for you. If you knew anything about physiology, you would recognize that the long run is very valuable. It depletes glycogen stores and when you rest from a long run, your body stores more glycogen than it did before. Over time, your body goes through a significant change and stores much more energy(which you can use late in the race in a 10K) than it did before. Speedwork does not do this for you. It improves your VO2 Max and stimulates your fast twitch muscles. The long run and speed work do very different things. I for one, found my times dropping a great deal with very little speedwork and a 16 mile long run over hilly terrain. Did you think that Geb, Tergat, Paula and the rest of the world just didn't know how to train?

Steve Scott and Steve Holman would strongly disagree with you. They both ran weekly long runs of at least 16 miles. Steve Scott regularly ran more than 90 miles per week.

Well said XCpotential.

I think Arthur Lydiard and Peter Snell would disagree with you on that.

Benefits of long run (more than 90min continuous running)

1. Increased heart stroke volume

2. Increased capillary density within muscles

3. Fast-twitch fibers begin to take on characteristics of slow-twitch fibers and produce aerobic energy more efficiently

4. Cellular mitochondria becomes optimised to produce aerobic energy more efficiently

5. Body learns to rely on fat as a fuel for energy rather than glycogen alone.

Snell ran 1:43 back in 1960 running 22 mile long runs every weekend up until 8 weeks before he planned to peak. Oh yeah he won gold too, 800m.

If you do that then every day you run the same distance. Ever hear of stagnation? Besides the long run works different systems in your body than short fast efforts. Not everyone can respond to speed if they don't have the high level of aerobic endurance which comes from running for more than an hour and twenty or so. Each distance and pace has it's purpose. There's no magic in speedwork without a sufficient aerobic base, and part of building and maintaining that base is the long run.

Run fast not long wrote:

thought police wrote:

"Even if a runner needs more mileage, the long run only adds more mileage"

Congrats, you want a cookie for that astonishing piece of wisdom???

Taken entirely out of context. My point is that it only adds mileage. There's no magic inherent just because it's a long run. Take the amount of your long run, add it to your other runs instead of doing the long run, and you get the same benefit.

Wow, all that science behind that post.

RWTB

Chapter 12

The Long Run

Speed Through Endurance

Long Runs (20-25% of the weekly mileage, 90min and up):

-Increase leg strength

-Increases overall accumulated volume of mileage

-Increases the capillarization of muscle fibers

-Increases the number of mitochondria in the cells

-Increases the enzyme activity within the mitochondria

-Increases the myoglobin in the muscle cells

-Increases the muscle's ability to store glycogen

-Recruits fast-twitch fibers to have a higher aerobic capacity than normal

-Strengthens all the ligaments, tendons, muscles and bones of the body

Still overrated?

Take two guys with identical talents.

One runs 40 mpw with two-three days of speed.

The other runs 90 mpw with one day of speed.

At the end of the season, who will run a faster 5K and 10K?

SpiderGal wrote:

Take two guys with identical talents.

One runs 40 mpw with two-three days of speed.

The other runs 90 mpw with one day of speed.

At the end of the season, who will run a faster 5K and 10K?

The one with the speedwork hands down. Even without a long run.

Doesn't it depend on what people mean by LSD?

I don't think folks here are advocating 8 minute mile log slow runs.

How fast do you run your long run vs your shorter runs?

"Taken entirely out of context. My point is that it only adds mileage. There's no magic inherent just because it's a long run. Take the amount of your long run, add it to your other runs instead of doing the long run, and you get the same benefit."

RWTB, 2nd ed.

"Other's say 'make it up at other times in the week.' This puts greater stress on the athlete to add mileage to his or her warmup and cool-doen or to add extra volume into recovery runs which then destroys the delicate balance that exists between rest and recovery."

Too many people undervalue their total lifetime volumes.

An 800m runner isn't going to run his/her best 800m until they've run 12,000 miles.

But for no more than a season. Short term view yeilds short term results.

Q: Take two guys with identical talents.

One runs 40 mpw with two-three days of speed.

The other runs 90 mpw with one day of speed.

At the end of the season, who will run a faster 5K and 10K?

A: They'll both get beaten by the third guy who runs 90mpw with two-three days of speed work.

Run fast not long wrote:

SpiderGal wrote:

Take two guys with identical talents.

One runs 40 mpw with two-three days of speed.

The other runs 90 mpw with one day of speed.

At the end of the season, who will run a faster 5K and 10K?

The one with the speedwork hands down. Even without a long run.

I'm curious about your results with this program? Assuming that your an American, how many NCAA or World titles do you have? Any national records?

I just have to laugh when they think about how those Africans and other great high mileage runners of the past wasted their time running long runs. All of that false science, the bad physical studies, etc. Good lord, just think about this...if you and Galloway get together, we'll be a nation of 12:30 / 25:45 / 2:03:00 runners!

bazza wrote:

Q: Take two guys with identical talents.

One runs 40 mpw with two-three days of speed.

The other runs 90 mpw with one day of speed.

At the end of the season, who will run a faster 5K and 10K?

A: They'll both get beaten by the third guy who runs 90mpw with two-three days of speed work.

Probably, but because of the mileage, not because he did a long run.

Try this:

A. 90 miles per week, with no long run and 3 speedworkouts per week. Longest run is 10 miles.

B. 90 miles per week with a long run of 18 miles and one speedworkout per week.

"A" wins easily. Where's the magic in the long run that makes the A runner faster? Hint: There isn't any.