NON-STEROID ALL-TIME WORLD LISTS

Not all PEDs are steroids, eg EPO.

I listed EPO if you read the article!

100 - 9.97

200 - 19.90

400 - 44.10

800 - 1.42.6

1500 - 3.29.7

5000 - 12.50

10000 - 26.50

Marathon - 2.05

Not sure why you're giving Perec a pass

You also have the following subject:NON-STEROID ALL-TIME WORLD LISTSWhich is the point of my original post.

parkerclay wrote:

I listed EPO if you read the article!

It won't let me change the title

Your best guesses are pitiful! I'm 99% sure Tyson Gay is clean - the man willingly participates in giving blood and having it frozen to test his innocence. I'm pretty certain Bolt is clean too.

I'd rather you single out individual athletes as being dirty or clean (if you don't wanna call out anyone) that throw crazy numbers out there with no reasoning behing it!

RE: PEREC - I dont have anything against her but if you think she's guilty, we can get feedback from others - maybe she deserves a Q for questionable ??

parkerclay wrote:

It won't let me change the title

Your best guesses are pitiful! I'm 99% sure Tyson Gay is clean - the man willingly participates in giving blood and having it frozen to test his innocence. I'm pretty certain Bolt is clean too.

I'd rather you single out individual athletes as being dirty or clean (if you don't wanna call out anyone) that throw crazy numbers out there with no reasoning behing it!

And I have severe doubts they are clean. After all, before Bolt, Gay and Powell all came on, only ONE person had every run under 9.85 without PEDs, and there are some legitimate questions to his use of PEDs. But then all the sudden three guys come along at the SAME TIME all three absolutely blowing away the world records that only juiced guys could get? That shouts suspicious to me.

And willingly testing yourself means nothing except that you are sure you will pass...look at Marion Jones, not only was she willingly tested, but she even willingly took a lie detector test too, which she also passed....while she was actually juicing.

parkerclay wrote:

I am taking strong PE drugs like steroids, HGH and EPO not stimulants (i.e. Carl Lewis). Yeah, they make help a little but I'm looking at the ones that drop performances by huge amounts (Ben Johnson, Katrin Krabbe, Kelli White, etc)

If you are taking strong PE drugs then why should we respect anything you have to say?

Talking dumbasd

Powell/gay/bolt - u need a better argument than that! How bout some facts? Under ur theory, Bannister, Landy, et al used drugs.

parkerclay wrote:

Talking dumbasd

Powell/gay/bolt - u need a better argument than that! How bout some facts? Under ur theory, Bannister, Landy, et al used drugs.

Only if Bannister and Landy, et. al had taken the WR for the 4:02 range to the 3:52 range...because thats the same sort of jump you are talking going from 9.79 to 9.58 and 9.69 (you could have used Geb and Komen lopping 17 seconds off the 5k WR in less than a year as a better example, but then, again, a lot of people think they were using EPO too...) The point isnt three guys breaking the record at once...its three guys DEMOLISHING IT by MASSIVE AMOUNTS, when no one could do that without PEDs before. And like I said, it seems suspicious to me...I cant say that its any sort of real evidence, just really fishy.

parkerclay wrote:

I'm 99% sure Tyson Gay is clean - the man willingly participates in giving blood and having it frozen to test his innocence. I'm pretty certain Bolt is clean too.

PEDs are VERY VERY effective. The two fastest 100 meter sprinters of all time OF COURSE ran those times with the help of banned substances.

100m- 9.58

200m- 19.19

400m - 43.18

800m - 1:41.73

1000m - 2:12.18

1500m - 3:29.7

3000m - definitely not 7:20. About 7:27.

Mile - 3:46.3

5000m - who knows!? Probably around 12:50!

10000m - ditto. About 26:45

I had someone very respected in the running community tell me that (not counting Caster) that 18 of the top 20 performances in the women's 800m were very likely made by women who doped in some fashion.

Anyone else wanna break down an event??

All-time women's best 800m

3 1:54.01 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Zürich 29.08.2008

4 1:54.44 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Barcelona 09.09.1989

7 1:54.82 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Köln 24.08.1997

9 1:54.87 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Beijing 18.08.2008

11 1:54.97 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Saint-Denis 18.07.2008

12 1:54.99 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Berlin 01.06.2008

16 1:55.16 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Bruxelles 05.09.2008

17 1:55.19 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 17.08.1994

20 1:55.29 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2 Köln 24.08.1997

22 1:55.41 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Oslo 06.06.2008

25 1:55.43 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Stuttgart 17.08.1993

26 1:55.45 Caster Semenya RSA 07.01.91 1 Berlin 19.08.2009

29 1:55.54 Ellen van Langen NED 09.02.66 1 Barcelona 03.08.1992

31 1:55.55 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Madrid 19.07.2003

34 1:55.62 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1r1 Zürich 04.08.1993

36 1:55.69 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Roma 11.07.2008

39 1:55.72 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Monaco 09.09.1995

41 1:55.76 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Hengelo 24.05.2008

42 1:55.78 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Stuttgart 13.07.1997

45 1:55.84 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 4 Roma 31.08.1987

51 1:55.93 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1rA Zürich 16.08.1995

60 1:56.04 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 11.08.1999

60 1:56.04 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 1 Osaka 28.08.2007

63 1:56.07 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 2 Beijing 18.08.2008

69 1:56.11 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Göteborg 13.08.1995

69 1:56.11 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 12.08.1998

73 1:56.15 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Sydney 25.09.2000

74 1:56.16 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2 Monaco 19.07.2002

75 1:56.17 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 1s3 Osaka 26.08.2007

80 1:56.21 Kelly Holmes GBR 19.04.70 2 Monaco 09.09.1995

83 1:56.23 Pamela Jelimo KEN 15.12.89 1 Stuttgart 14.09.2008

87 1:56.25 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1rA Lausanne 02.07.2002

92 1:56.29 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 2 Monaco 10.08.1996

92 1:56.29 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 1rA Rieti 09.09.2007

95 1:56.36 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Villeneuve d'Ascq 27.06.1988

95 1:56.36 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Durban 27.06.1993

95 1:56.36 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 13.08.1997

100 1:56.38 Kelly Holmes GBR 19.04.70 1 Athínai 23.08.2004

101 1:56.40 Jearl Miles-Clark USA 04.09.66 3 Zürich 11.08.1999

104 1:56.43 Jearl Miles-Clark USA 04.09.66 2 Zürich 12.08.1998

104 1:56.43 Hasna Benhassi MAR 01.06.78 2 Athínai 23.08.2004

108 1:56.45 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

109 1:56.47 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 2 Zürich 13.08.1997

112 1:56.51 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Oslo 10.07.1993

112 1:56.51 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 4 Athínai 23.08.2004

115 1:56.53 Patricia Djaté FRA 03.01.71 3 Monaco 09.09.1995

115 1:56.53 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Fukuoka 13.09.1997

121 1:56.56 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1r1 Berlin 21.08.1987

121 1:56.56 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 New York City 22.05.1993

125 1:56.57 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Lausanne 01.07.2003

135 1:56.61 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 2 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

138 1:56.62 Argentina Paulino MOZ 07.07.73 2 New York City 22.05.1993

138 1:56.62 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 2rA Zürich 16.08.1995

142 1:56.64 Stephanie Graf AUT 26.04.73 2 Sydney 25.09.2000

146 1:56.65 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2 Monaco 08.08.1998

148 1:56.66 Ellen van Langen NED 09.02.66 1 Hengelo 28.06.1992

148 1:56.66 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 1rA Lausanne 11.07.2006

152 1:56.68 Letitia Vriesde SUR 05.10.64 2 Göteborg 13.08.1995

158 1:56.71 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Stockholm 05.08.1998

161 1:56.72 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2 Sevilla 24.08.1999

161 1:56.72 Caster Semenya RSA 07.01.91 1 Bambous 31.07.2009

164 1:56.73 Hasna Benhassi MAR 01.06.78 3 Beijing 18.08.2008

167 1:56.77 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2rA Lausanne 11.07.2006

168 1:56.78 Jearl Miles-Clark USA 04.09.66 3 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

170 1:56.79 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Monaco 16.08.1997

171 1:56.80 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 3 Barcelona 03.08.1992

171 1:56.80 Kelly Holmes GBR 19.04.70 3 Sydney 25.09.2000

181 1:56.84 Hasna Benhassi MAR 01.06.78 2s3 Osaka 26.08.2007

183 1:56.85 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 17.08.2001

188 1:56.90 Mary Slaney USA 04.08.58 1 Bern 16.08.1985

188 1:56.90 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 2 Monaco 16.08.1997

188 1:56.90 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Zürich 11.08.2000

193 1:56.91 Kim Gallagher USA 11.06.64 3 Seoul 26.09.1988

193 1:56.91 Zulia Calatayud CUB 09.11.79 3rA Lausanne 11.07.2006

196 1:56.92 Ellen van Langen NED 09.02.66 1 Hechtel 18.07.1992

198 1:56.93 Jearl Miles-Clark USA 04.09.66 4 Zürich 13.08.1997

198 1:56.93 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Berlin 26.08.1997

198 1:56.93 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 2 Fukuoka 13.09.1997

204 1:56.95 Kelly Holmes GBR 19.04.70 3 Göteborg 13.08.1995

206 1:56.96 Ana Fidelia Quirot CUB 23.03.63 1 Zürich 17.08.1988

210 1:56.98 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Stockholm 01.08.2000

210 1:56.98 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 3s3 Osaka 26.08.2007

214 1:56.99A Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Harare 18.09.1995

214 1:56.99 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Monaco 04.08.1999

214 1:56.99 Hasna Benhassi MAR 01.06.78 2 Osaka 28.08.2007

225 1:57.03 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Hechtel 01.08.1998

226 1:57.04 Patricia Djaté FRA 03.01.71 4 Göteborg 13.08.1995

226 1:57.04 Meredith Valmon USA 15.10.68 1 Atlanta 17.06.1996

232 1:57.07 Letitia Vriesde SUR 05.10.64 3rA Zürich 16.08.1995

232 1:57.07 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1r1 Zürich 14.08.1996

232 1:57.07 Stephanie Graf AUT 26.04.73 5 Zürich 11.08.1999

232 1:57.07 Janeth Jepkosgei Busienei KEN 13.02.83 1 Rieti 27.08.2006

353 1:57.42 Kirsty Wade GBR 06.08.62 2 Belfast 24.06.1985

376 1:57.48 Kirsty Wade GBR 06.08.62 4 Moskva 17.08.1985

523 1:57.80 Delisa Walton-Floyd USA 28.07.61 5 Seoul 26.09.1988

523 1:57.80 Maryam Yusuf Jamal BRN 16.09.84 2 Zürich 29.08.2008

535 1:57.82 Julie Jenkins USA 12.08.64 4r2 Zürich 15.08.1990

535 1:57.82 Amina Aït Hammou MAR 18.07.78 3 Roma 11.07.2003

543 1:57.84 Joetta Clark-Diggs USA 01.08.62 3 Monaco 08.08.1998

543 1:57.84 Maggie Vessey USA 23.12.81 1 Monaco 28.07.2009

563 1:57.88 Kenia Sinclair JAM 14.07.80 2 Rethimnó 21.07.2006

573 1:57.9 Madeline Jackson USA 11.01.48 3 College Park 07.08.1976

599 1:57.93 Jennifer Meadows GBR 17.04.81 3 Berlin 19.08.2009

621 1:57.97 Nicole Teter USA 08.11.73 2rA Lausanne 02.07.2002

636 1:57.99 Hazel Clark USA 03.10.77 4rA Oslo 29.07.2005

usual suspects plus eastern europeans and chinese until we get to about 1:58.

There is no way to know if somebody was clean. We can only know if somebody is dirty. Just like being declared "not guilty" in a criminal trial doesn't mean you didn't do it, it just means there wasn't enough to prove that you did. Passing a drug test just means you may be innocent or you may not have gotten caught.

My list was similar to that but my source took Van Langen and Quirot out!

What have you got against these two?

1 1:53.28 Jarmila Kratochvílová CZE 26.01.51 1 München 26.07.1983

2 1:53.43 Nadezhda Olizarenko UKR 28.11.53 1 Moskva 27.07.1980

Alf Shrubb. wrote:

What have you got against these two?

1 1:53.28 Jarmila Kratochvílová CZE 26.01.51 1 München 26.07.1983

2 1:53.43 Nadezhda Olizarenko UKR 28.11.53 1 Moskva 27.07.1980

Well, 1 is a man, and 2 comes from part of a systematic doping regime. Remember when Russia pulled almost the entire women's team from the indoor champs a couple seasons ago?