American Record vs. American CITIZENS record

That doesn't go far enough. My native ancestors owned every record in the books long before Columbus and his genocide gang set foot on our land. You can call them European-American records, African-American records or whatever you want, but we all know the true American records are held by my people.

I think it is a dumb idea.

I have more respect for Lagat's citizenship. Lagat is more American than Solinsky. He chose to become American; Solinsky was lucky enough to be born here and most likely (like myself) has done nothing to earn or deserve being American.

And it just provides cover for racists to rationalize rooting for white runners. Back in the day, did fans not root for Salazar or want to deny him proper credit for ARs, or more recently DeReuck and Lewy Boulet?

And eventually, Meb, Lagat, or Abdi's kids may break an AR. What then?

why are we differentiating against immigrants from 10 years ago with immigrants from before that? It doesn't make any sense.

lovely turtles wrote:

, Meb, Lagat, or Abdi's kids may break an AR. What then?

Well, if they were born in the U.S. that would be an American Record.

If they were born in another country, then became citizens, that would be an American Citizen record.

lovely turtles wrote:

I think it is a dumb idea.

I have more respect for Lagat's citizenship. Lagat is more American than Solinsky. He chose to become American; Solinsky was lucky enough to be born here and most likely (like myself) has done nothing to earn or deserve being American.

And it just provides cover for racists to rationalize rooting for white runners. Back in the day, did fans not root for Salazar or want to deny him proper credit for ARs, or more recently DeReuck and Lewy Boulet?

And eventually, Meb, Lagat, or Abdi's kids may break an AR. What then?

This is just stupid, both are americans, neither more so than the other.

I will root for lagat because he is an excellent runner and a great person...

However, lagat wore the Kenyan jersey in the 2004 olympics while he had american citizenship.

I feel like while he has and deserves the american record, in my mind it's got an asterisk next to it, because he competed internationally for another country while he was a us citizen, and not because he is an immigrant.

My thought is that the guy who started this thread is a jerk, and that if Lagat had come over 15 years ago from Sweden, this would not even be a topic.

Thunderclap Newman wrote:

My thought is that the guy who started this thread is a jerk, and that if Lagat had come over 15 years ago from Sweden, this would not even be a topic.

Jerk? Wow, such hostility. I haven't given an opinion one way or the other. I saw the phrase, "Citizen Record" on another thread and wanted to see what other people thought.

I do think you are wrong about "if Lagat had come over 15 years ago from Sweden, this would not even be a topic."

I think we would still see someone bring up the phrase "Citizen Record" and I still would have posed the same question.

BTW - I am against "Citizens Record" - but I will admit it is an intriguing concept.

Why not have segregated BLACK vs. WHITE records, this is what you really mean.

It's not that crazy of an idea. I could have gone to Korea or Paraguay an re-written many of their record books but there is just something not right about that.

Granted US is a melting pot, but when you have been an international class runner (one of the best runners in the history of the world) for another country and move over to the US as a mercinary it's different than being born here. It really is. Think about it, how many of you really think of Qatar records a Qatar records? If an English record goes down you take note, but if a Kenyan born Qatari runs 12:55 who's really impressed? It's just a Kenyan seeking Olympic and World Championship births via Qatar. Is Lagat all that different?

Les wrote:

Why not have segregated BLACK vs. WHITE records, this is what you really mean.

No, It's not. I guess I live a sheltered life. Actually, that thought never even occurred to me until it was brought up here.

The point is, did you go to Korea or Paraguay? No, because you value your US Citizenship.

As surprising as it is to believe, but it is easier for Lagat to make national teams in Kenya than in the US. In Kenya, he would be selected, in the US, he has to finish top 3 at the trials.

The US didn't pay him to come here, he chose to come here because of quality of life issues for him and his family. He could live like a king in Kenya, like Geb in Ethiopia, or he could live a middle class life in America. He chose America.

To me, that is inspiring, not a reason to diminish his accomplishments.

On some lists you see "CR" that is a Continental Record ie the fastest time by a runner from that continent.

Africa

Asia

Europe

North A

Oceania

South A

I find the amount of White over Black racism on this board repulsive.

Did it bother people when Hakeem Olajuwon made the Dream Team 2 over Shawn Kemp or Dennis Rodman (or Garnett or Wallace who were rookies that year)?

It really is white vs black. Even that is not clear. Take me for example, I'm a white guy, but hung like a black guy.

wineturtle wrote:

On some lists you see "CR" that is a Continental Record ie the fastest time by a runner from that continent.

Africa

Asia

Europe

North A

Oceania

South A

So by these standards - Lagat did not break any record today?

lovely turtles wrote:

The point is, did you go to Korea or Paraguay? No, because you value your US Citizenship.

Not really I was just born here and went thru school every step of the way here. It's not that I even thought of the value of my citizenship, I just ran where I was born.

Just answer me this, how many elite Kenyan transplants would it take for you to sway your opinion? What if we had no american born americans making our world or olympic teams in the distances?

It's just one of those things, that has rights and wrongs involved on both sides of it. Look I'll have no problem if Lagats sons grow up and own American records. It is a little different for a guy who already put up some of the fastest times in history before becoming a U.S. citizen though.

FYI, Kenya has ignored some of their greatest runners from their teams. Lagat was always at risk not to make teams there and national records would have always eluded him from 800-10K.

native sun wrote:

That doesn't go far enough. My native ancestors owned every record in the books long before Columbus and his genocide gang set foot on our land. You can call them European-American records, African-American records or whatever you want, but we all know the true American records are held by my people.

Why is it that war and suffering perpetrated by Indian tribes from South America to North America don't count?

Human sacrifice, slavery and the obliteration of entire communities went on among the Indian nations long before Columbus and continued after he arrived?

You did not know that?

Umm, Ritz and Kennedy are citizens like Lagat so what are you going on about?

u dumm fukk wrote:

Umm, Ritz and Kennedy are citizens like Lagat so what are you going on about?

You are the dumbass...read the thread...

Born in U.S. - Not born in U.S.