The Worst Race Tactics Ever?

I'd say every race skuj has ever run is the worst race tactics ever.

give us a link so we can vote

puskedra in the 5000 at regionals

Shit, maybe the first lap in LA was 58, not 56? Anyway, it wasn't slow.

If you read his book, he explains why he did it.

Late in 1983 he sat down with Len Miller and they mapped out their options. Understand now, he was going for the gold. Not the bronze or the silver. Gold or nothing.

They realized that most championship 1500 races were slow paced affairs with fast final laps. They realized that such a race would leave a poor kicker like Scott with little chance of the gold. In the 1983 World Champs he lost to Steve Cram due to a very slow early pace. He did NOT want that in the Olympic final. He did best race off of an honest, fast pace.

So for him to win the gold in LA the pace had to be fast. A fast pace would obviously not ensure victory but a slow pace would absolutely rule it out.

So all of his prep and buildup in 1984 was designed with that in mind. Leading the race, pushing the pace. If no one else would do that in the final, he would. Keino had won gold with that strategy.

It didn't work, of course, but that was the reasoning. It's easy for us to sit here, 26 years later and call it a bad move. If Keino had lost you could do the same thing, I guess.

Except that Scott really didn't push the pace (Coe's splits were like 58.9, 58.9 (1:56.9), 56.4 (2:53.3), 39.2 ). 59s are an honest pace but it isn't the type of pace to run the kick out of a 3:50 runners legs. Scott just didn't have it on that day.And for what it is worth, I think the extended kick (500-600m) works better. Leading the whole race turns you into a rabbit. Unless you are better than the field (Elliot) or have an advantage (altitude in 68) your in trouble.But as far as bad tactics, what about Johnny Gray always going out hard and dying. In olympic years he had season best of sub 1:43 3 times and came up with 1 bronze.

worse race tactics ever?

Nope, not Scott, not Gray...how about all the great US high school runners who followed some tactic that steered them directly into running irrelevance.

My nomination is Bekele in the 2004 5k. Then it would be Webb during most any international race.

But he ran great in 83 off that slow pace, and came 2nd. Why on earth would he and his coach think he even had a chance in hell by taking the lead so early right after a fast 400m? It just doesn't make sense. And we are not talking about Keino, who was a very different character.

asdfasfasfds wrote:

Except that Scott really didn't push the pace (Coe's splits were like 58.9, 58.9 (1:56.9), 56.4 (2:53.3), 39.2 ). 59s are an honest pace but it isn't the type of pace to run the kick out of a 3:50 runners legs. Scott just didn't have it on that day.

And for what it is worth, I think the extended kick (500-600m) works better. Leading the whole race turns you into a rabbit. Unless you are better than the field (Elliot) or have an advantage (altitude in 68) your in trouble.

But as far as bad tactics, what about Johnny Gray always going out hard and dying. In olympic years he had season best of sub 1:43 3 times and came up with 1 bronze.

The 1500m is the hardest race to lead. It's just fantasy to think that you can win by going into the lead after 400m, off a decent pace, with Coe and Cram in there.

As for Johnny Gray, at least he ran MOST of his races that way. And he did get a bronze out of those 4 finals. What Scott did in the 84 Olympic Final was strange territory for him. THE OLYMPIC FINAL of all races! He ran much smarter in 88. It was a bit late then, past his prime, but he did himself proud in that one.

In all likelihood, Scott got caught up in the "do or die" mentality and, feeling strong after one lap, decided to go for it. This is a form of panic, or choking, and the results bore that out.

To win championship races, you have to ride the razor's edge between serenity and all-out effort. This is difficult when the enormity of the moment makes your insides quake with urgency. Coe and Cram were more confident and prudently dialed up the intensity at an appropriate rate.

The annals of 1500m history are filled with incidences where someone tries, in vain, to bury the field with a ridiculous mid-race surge. More often than not, those moves are the runner's way of saying, "I can't take the pressure anymore... I'm going to end this now," and are made by someone who feels he has little chance of winning.

Mr. Wang wrote:

In all likelihood, Scott got caught up in the "do or die" mentality and, feeling strong after one lap, decided to go for it. This is a form of panic, or choking, and the results bore that out.

To win championship races, you have to ride the razor's edge between serenity and all-out effort. This is difficult when the enormity of the moment makes your insides quake with urgency. Coe and Cram were more confident and prudently dialed up the intensity at an appropriate rate.

The annals of 1500m history are filled with incidences where someone tries, in vain, to bury the field with a ridiculous mid-race surge. More often than not, those moves are the runner's way of saying, "I can't take the pressure anymore... I'm going to end this now," and are made by someone who feels he has little chance of winning.

I just want to say that THIS is one hell of a post. Brojos, does that POD thing actually do anything?

Wow, that was one of the most insightful and accurate posts I've ever seen in regards to the 1500m.

Well done sir.

Which webb race are yout talking about

I AM THE BATMAN wrote:

Which webb race are yout talking about

Was it the 2005 WC Final when he did that famous 12sec 100m mid race sprint? Then he got completely tooled by almost everyone on the final lap? (My memory gets fuzzy.)

I AM THE BATMAN wrote:

Which webb race are yout talking about

Scott was hardly favourite in 1984 the best he could have realistically achieved is Bronze.

I saw Gray in either an OG or WC where he did not lead and still finished oustide the medals. At least he got a good bronze. He was really up against it with runners like Coe, Ereng and Cruz around

Trying to think of an out and out favourite who bombed

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Trying to think of an out and out favourite who bombed

Barringer.

Interesting topic, Skuj.

Two I can think of are:

Steve Holman in 1500m in (I think) 1996 Olympic Trial. He was something like 6 seconds ahead of the rest of the field and clearly THE favorite. But the thing about him was that he can't really sprint. I remember watching that race with a couple of friends here in MN and, naturally, we were all rooting for Holman, being a Minnesotan. He was in the lead but not in command. A lap to go, he was still in the lead but basically he was pulling everybody along. I still remember, this older lady was particularly excited and screaming for Steve and I was saying, "O-oh..." It turned into a mad-dash in the final 100m and, I think, he finished something like 6th and had no idea what had happened. Someone that superior with no kick should have going into the final lap with a comfortable lead and coast in. It doesn't matter if your PR is 20 seconds faster (in 1500), if you can't sprint and if you're in a mad-dash situation in the final 100m against people whose PRs are slower than you but CAN sprint; you're in trouble.

Bob Kennedy in 2000 Olympic Trial 5000m final. Before the start, it was reported that he figured he was not in his top shape so he approached Adam Goucher to share the lead the first 3k hard to shake everybody else out. Goucher decline but I thought, what a domb idea!! So he figured he's in a decent shape to push 3k out of 5k so he would make the race out of it in the FIRST 3k of the 5k race??? What the heck!!??? With his reptation, he should have walked in the first 2k, hoping everybody else would bunch up behind him THEN make the LAST 3k a hard race. Lo-and-behond, he took off at the start and, he was correct, he pushed the pace up till 3k and faded. Unfortunately, the race didn't end at 3k...

This one is not necessarily "a" race but, in my opinion, one of the worst master bad tactician is/was Tiffany McWilliam. A very good runner and, in my opinion, could have been much greater. She always seems to take the lead about a lap to go and fade in the final 200m. That tactic might have worked in college but never worked in post-collegiate level but she seems to have employed that over and over and over and over... A several years back, when our daughter's Japanese cousin visited us, they would play basketball together. Our daughter was playing basketball for AAU and we had a hoop by the garage. They don't even have a garage in Japan and he might play baseball in the playground but not basketball. Naturally, he wasn't as good. We were jokingly (this is kinda mean) calling him "safety shot" because we knew he most likely would not make the shot. Every time I saw her take the lead a lap to go, I remembered him because, it's like "safety sprint" because we knew she was going to fade about 200m to go...and she almost always did. I just wondered why she, and her coach, kept employing the failing tactic... I don't think I ever saw her winning a race, employing this "tactic".

Despite Skuj's unfounded criticism of Steve Scott, I must agree with Nobby here. When one does not have the turnover to outkick even the most modest of opponents, one must go to the front and work to open up the largest possible gap on the field. Steve Scott and his coach knew his limitations -- and his strengths -- and forged a courageous race plan to give him his best chance at gold. This is basic coaching and elementary racing strategies. I'm surprised Skuj did not recognize it. Holman and his coach learned a lesson too.