Can minimalism help a beginning runner who is highly prone to shin splints?

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  • Nothing else has worked
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 8:58am CDT
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    I have been trying for over two years to help a friend get into running, but each time she tries, she gets shin splints (medial). She has high, rigid arches and pronates a bit on the left (the side prone to shin splints). Each attempt at running has resulted in shin splints. She has tried all sorts of stretching, strengthening and massage. Nothing was worked. Every attempt to run ends in painful shin splints after getting close to being able to run a mile without stopping or a similar distance with walk breaks.

    The local running store put her in some pretty hefty Asics (Nimbus, I think). I have been wondering whether minimalism may be the answer.

    Anyone had success getting past medial shin splints by going minimal? Specifically as a beginner? Anyone get medial shin splints by going minimal?
  • tomtom
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    10 years ago 05/27/2010 9:28am CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    for me worked like charm

    pain dissappeared in a few days, it was like magic.
  • txRUNNERgirl
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    10 years ago 05/27/2010 12:39pm CDT
    re: tomtom
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    tomtom wrote:

    for me worked like charm

    pain dissappeared in a few days, it was like magic.

    Same here. Especially try it if she's a beginner since she'll be starting with short/easy runs anyway. This should give her time to adjust. I always had shin pain, but I was one of those crazy kids who ran through it all through high school and a year of college until one day I found one of my tibias was fractured. Then came a period of healing, running again, getting reinjured, repeat. It was always the same shin problems until I went minimalist. The low heel was what mainly did it.
  • Zomg
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 1:45pm CDT
    re: txRUNNERgirl
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    I did the same thing as a beginner, and it worked for me as well.
  • yyy
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 2:46pm CDT
    re: txRUNNERgirl
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    what shoes are you wearing? Curious, thinking about giving it a shot.
  • tomtom
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    10 years ago 05/27/2010 4:22pm CDT
    re: yyy
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    yyy wrote:

    what shoes are you wearing? Curious, thinking about giving it a shot.

    For me, best ones are cheap, "sport type" shoes from China, you can buy them for $5-$10, just check if they have low heel. If minimalism doesn't work for for you, just throw them away, it's better than waste $150 on professional shoes you can't use.
  • Nothing else has worked
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 4:43pm CDT
    re: txRUNNERgirl
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    txRUNNERgirl wrote:

    tomtom wrote:

    for me worked like charm

    pain dissappeared in a few days, it was like magic.

    Same here. Especially try it if she's a beginner since she'll be starting with short/easy runs anyway. This should give her time to adjust. I always had shin pain, but I was one of those crazy kids who ran through it all through high school and a year of college until one day I found one of my tibias was fractured. Then came a period of healing, running again, getting reinjured, repeat. It was always the same shin problems until I went minimalist. The low heel was what mainly did it.


    How low of a heel? Are we talking like a super-light 5k flat or Nike Frees?
  • txRUNNERgirl
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    10 years ago 05/27/2010 5:04pm CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    It depends on personal preference. I've worn everything from aqua socks to Lunaracers, but the Nike Mayfly and the first version on the Nike Free 3.0 work best for me. I'm back in the Mayfly currently and it's my perfect shoe. Too bad it's not so durable. I like it because it doesn't have much difference between the forefoot height and heel height, if any. There's no heel counter either and the sole is flexible, yet has a little cushioning so I don't feel every rock under my feet like in aqua socks.
  • El Mastero
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 6:16pm CDT
    re: txRUNNERgirl
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    txrunnergirl you had your first stress fracture because you gained weight.
  • ChasePack85
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 8:34pm CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    Is she running on harder surfaces i.e. cement or asphalt? Get her to a softer surface if you haven't already.

    Secondly, what shoes is she wearing throughout the day? I would be hard pressed to think the running shoes are the problem if a mile or two is the total distance being run. *By the way* the Asics Nimbus is already a lightweight, though not "minimalist" shoe.

    Third, does she have knee pain that accompanies the shin pain? In actuality, a shoe with more of a post i.e Asics 2100 series could be more beneficial than a minimalist approach. I think there are many more options to explore before buying a pair of Newton, only to create calf problems. Best of luck!
  • Lenny Z
    10 years ago 05/27/2010 10:02pm CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    For what it is worth, I had this exact problem. I eventually ended up with a stress fracture. I tried a bunch of stuff including all types of shoes. I have totally solved the problem by skate skiing (cross country) all winter. I suppose that a strength training regimen could accomplish the same, but the muscle balance that you get from doing 1 to 2 hour skate skiing sessions all winter did the trick. The problem comes from strong calves pulling repeatedly on weak shins. Strengthen the muscles/ligaments that oppose the calves and the problem disappears.
  • txRUNNERgirl
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    10 years ago 05/27/2010 10:23pm CDT
    re: El Mastero
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    El Mastero wrote:

    txrunnergirl you had your first stress fracture because you gained weight.

    No, I had my first stress fracture before you were even on the team. And it was caused in part by low bone density due to not eating/weighing enough at the time, actually. Again, this was before you knew me, so you didn't know me when I was unhealthy-skinny. I gained weight when I went from running 70-80 mpw to suddenly not being able to run. Needless to say my metabolism was off. At least get your facts straight before calling me fat. And get a life while you're at it.
  • Nothing else has worked
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 8:50am CDT
    re: ChasePack85
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    ChasePack85 wrote:

    Is she running on harder surfaces i.e. cement or asphalt? Get her to a softer surface if you haven't already.

    Secondly, what shoes is she wearing throughout the day? I would be hard pressed to think the running shoes are the problem if a mile or two is the total distance being run. *By the way* the Asics Nimbus is already a lightweight, though not "minimalist" shoe.

    Third, does she have knee pain that accompanies the shin pain? In actuality, a shoe with more of a post i.e Asics 2100 series could be more beneficial than a minimalist approach. I think there are many more options to explore before buying a pair of Newton, only to create calf problems. Best of luck!

    1. Tried softer surfaces. She either runs on crushed granite trails or grass.

    2. She wears sandals or clogs during the day. The expensive ones that are supposed to be good for your feet, not high-heeled fashion things.

    3. No knee pain. She has been in some pretty stiff Asics. She has run in the GT series before with the same results.

    As for other posts, cross country skiing would be great except we are in the deep south. I would agree that muscle development is certainly lacking, but she can't afford to go to a gym and has not been able to find another activity to build muscle. Even doing fitness videos have resulted in shin pain.

    And TXRunnergirl did a pretty good job slapping down El Maestro.
  • 5er
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    10 years ago 05/28/2010 9:14am CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    There was a very interesting study on women's tibias last year - it found that lower leg health was directly proportional to the size of calf muscles. In other words, the bigger the calf muscle, the stronger the bone and the fewer stress fractures/stress reactions/shin splints.

    So maybe she needs to build up her calf muscles a bit before she runs regularly. Maybe the connection to minimalism is that it builds up calf muscles faster than with traditional shoes.

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/phys-ed-how-to-prevent-stress-fractures/?scp=1&sq=calves%20stress%20fracture&st=cse
  • calf pain
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 10:51am CDT
    re: 5er
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    I have a related question.

    In the past, every time I tried to train for a 10k or anything, I would end up with lower back pain and shin splints. A friend of mine told me to try striking more on my forefoot and less on my heel, and the transition cured my back pain but not the shins. I've been wearing Mizunos for over-pronation and whatnot.

    Running more on my forefoot brought on a whole new problem, however. Before my shins can even act up, I get calf soreness and tightness. I only got that pain after increasing the mileage to ~20 (I cross train a lot and have never been able to run a lot because of shin splints and now this).

    So I decided to try Vibram Five Fingers, and so far no shin splints or back pain. However, my calves are getting torn up. Each time I run (usually about 3 miles), they get incredibly sore, tight, and tender for at least 4 days. What the hell? Any suggestions for me? I've had the VFFs for a month. I'm ready to f***ing run for once in my life, and not have to deal with this shit.
  • simply not true
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 10:55am CDT
    re: ChasePack85
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    ChasePack85 wrote:

    Is she running on harder surfaces i.e. cement or asphalt? Get her to a softer surface if you haven't already.


    Softer surfaces really don't make a difference.
  • Oppo
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 11:10am CDT
    re: Nothing else has worked
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    If she pronates why was she in a Nimbus in the first place.. Not that the minimalist approach wont help, but she also may want to try a supportive shoe as well. I will admit the Nimbus was probably enhancing her pronation rather than helping it since the shoe is so soft. Try a minimalist shoe, if it doesn't help try something more supportive!
  • Nothing else has worked
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 11:18am CDT
    re: Oppo
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    Oppo wrote:

    If she pronates why was she in a Nimbus in the first place.. Not that the minimalist approach wont help, but she also may want to try a supportive shoe as well. I will admit the Nimbus was probably enhancing her pronation rather than helping it since the shoe is so soft. Try a minimalist shoe, if it doesn't help try something more supportive!

    She ran in a Nimbus with an over the counter orthotic. She has also tried the GT series.
  • 5er
    registered
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 11:28am CDT
    re: calf pain
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    calf pain wrote:

    I have a related question.

    In the past, every time I tried to train for a 10k or anything, I would end up with lower back pain and shin splints. A friend of mine told me to try striking more on my forefoot and less on my heel, and the transition cured my back pain but not the shins. I've been wearing Mizunos for over-pronation and whatnot.

    Running more on my forefoot brought on a whole new problem, however. Before my shins can even act up, I get calf soreness and tightness. I only got that pain after increasing the mileage to ~20 (I cross train a lot and have never been able to run a lot because of shin splints and now this).

    So I decided to try Vibram Five Fingers, and so far no shin splints or back pain. However, my calves are getting torn up. Each time I run (usually about 3 miles), they get incredibly sore, tight, and tender for at least 4 days. What the hell? Any suggestions for me? I've had the VFFs for a month. I'm ready to f***ing run for once in my life, and not have to deal with this shit.

    Sounds like what is happening is this: Most running shoes elevate your heel above the ball of your foot, like a woman's high heel shoe. That affects your calf muscle.

    One of the main deals with minimalist shoes is that they reduce that slope between heel and forefoot. It is supposed to be more natural that way.

    So your calf muscle is being used differently in regular running shoes vs minimalist shoes. Sounds like you are using your calves much more.

    If you try to run just on the balls of your feet, you will feel the extra pressure on your calves.

    So if you like the minimalist approach, keep it up - just remember that you are building up muscle in your calves and you need to not work them too hard. Maybe alternate back and forth so you can run more often. Or maybe do some calf raises to strengthen your calves.
  • txRUNNERgirl
    registered
    10 years ago 05/28/2010 1:41pm CDT
    re: calf pain
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    calf pain wrote:

    I have a related question.

    In the past, every time I tried to train for a 10k or anything, I would end up with lower back pain and shin splints. A friend of mine told me to try striking more on my forefoot and less on my heel, and the transition cured my back pain but not the shins. I've been wearing Mizunos for over-pronation and whatnot.

    Running more on my forefoot brought on a whole new problem, however. Before my shins can even act up, I get calf soreness and tightness. I only got that pain after increasing the mileage to ~20 (I cross train a lot and have never been able to run a lot because of shin splints and now this).

    So I decided to try Vibram Five Fingers, and so far no shin splints or back pain. However, my calves are getting torn up. Each time I run (usually about 3 miles), they get incredibly sore, tight, and tender for at least 4 days. What the hell? Any suggestions for me? I've had the VFFs for a month. I'm ready to f***ing run for once in my life, and not have to deal with this shit.

    See, the shin pain was caused by landing on your forefoot in a shoe with a big heel. That's what my initial problem was.

    The Vibrams are the trendy shoes right now, but they are on the extreme side. Like I said, there are different levels of minimalist shoes. I wore mostly racing flats of various cushioning levels for years before this spring when I tried aqua socks. I tried them because they were similar to Vibrams, but much, much cheaper. I figured I'd see if I liked running in aqua socks before throwing down $100 on Vibrams.

    After running a couple of weeks in the aqua socks, any niggles I had before disappeared. However, my calves were beat up. I expected this, but also expected to be used to it since I've worn flats so long. I also felt every rock under me. They felt great on grass, but not on trails or roads. Even though I could wear them, having just a bit more cushioning is what I prefer, especially since I can't run on grass the whole time.

    I can only imagine how slow you'd have to transition to Vibrams if you are used to wearing stability shoes or something like that. I'd suggest trying a racing flat at first. Gradually build to the Vibrams if that's your goal. Wear the Vibrams for walking around, etc., and maybe run a few days a week in them.