I have 6 weeks to turn a 20 min 5k guy into a 18 min 5k guy. Help!

ok id say first two weeks, spend with a tempo run and a fartlek. next three do 1 tempo, 1 very long workout, and a 50-50 workout for 2 miles. the last week should be a 50-50 workout for a mile and hope for the best!

Unless you're doing from 20:01 to 18:59, I don't think it's going to happen. What's the guy's weakness? Is it just that he lost speed or that he's out of shape? If he just lost his speed, then the repeats and intervals might make the difference. If he's just out of shape, then 3 weeks of serious base training might be your best bet, followed by one week of quality work, followed by two weeks of a little quality and a lot of preparation.

I don't really buy that a 15:30 guy can't figure this out for himself. There's something wrong with the picture if the guy trained to be that fast without ever learning about running.

I need to stop spending so much time reading this post, because I have many reactions to it. I can't help but think about the people reading this who might be sitting at a 20 minute 5k for several years and then they come on here and read about how you're planning to take a guy from 20 to 18 in a month and a half. Lots of people are capable of this, especially a former 15:30 runner, but clearly there is more at play than this simple description affords us.

Has he put on any weight? If so, six weeks is plenty of time to lose quite a bit. If he loses 10 pounds, that's about a minute in a 5k right there, isn't it?

I agree with rsbones. A former 15:30 guy, unless he is now pushing 60 years old, should be able to get close to 18 by dropping weight, running every day and doing strides every other day.

For the workouts, run 400s the first couple weeks, then alternate between 800s and 400s the next 4 weeks. Make sure the paces are below race pace. For the long run, do a progression until the last 3 or 4 miles are at tempo. I would also try to race at least a couple times or do a short run very fast each week.

1 20-40 min hard run. 1k-1200 meter repeats with 1:1 wk rest. rest of week have him cross train to limit injury and maybe burn off some weight.

Thanks for the ideas.

He is a lot heavier than back in the day and likes to put back quite a few beers each week. He seems to go out too hard in his races and tank in the last mile. Always around 19:30-20:15.

He has no problem going out for 3-5 mile runs but the speed and pacing thing are issues.

Have him run longer on his short runs. 3-5 miles is not nearly enough and he will benefit quite a lot from increasing his mileage.

One always have time for 2 workouts

400m's repeats on the track 2x per week around 76 sec per with only 200m jog recover.

Get up to 12 in one set, and make sure he get's in at least 40 mpw overall.

Be honest with him and tell you have no experience/knowledge with which to be coaching him. You admitted it to us now be honest with him as well. Why try and fake it?

He doesn't have pacing issues, his body wants to run fast but he can't handle it. There is a big difference. Pay attention to the tempo he actually enjoys running, the tempo that feels right early in the 5000m race; that's meaningful information. Work from there or just a bit faster than that speed, with intermittent and some tempo running. Rather than snail jogging, just let him walk on the light days. Long slow runs are pointless and demoralizing for him right now. Play to the strengths not the weaknesses. Focus on making the workouts challenging and fun.

I would also talk to this runner about something more meaningful than an 18' 5000m, which is not focal for a formerly respectably good endurance athlete. No real excitement there. For additional goals perhaps a <5 mile if US or maybe a <3' 1000m if European. With proper coaching he should be able to drop 3' or so from his 5000m in 6 months -- assuming he can live without butter and beer .

Bring down the 1000m and the 5000m will follow.

EPO

Is the goal sub 18 or 18:59 or better?

I think a lot of these guys are off base. He won't be able to handle hard 400s. Have him do his reps at ~10k pace with 2 minute jog recoveries. Start out with 800s and move up to 5* 1k. This won't be that hard so he'll stay motivated and uninjured. Do a long run with a fast finish if he's feeling good. Run 3-5 miles easy for as many other days as he wants.

Not a NCAA Fan wrote:

Be honest with him and tell you have no experience/knowledge with which to be coaching him. You admitted it to us now be honest with him as well. Why try and fake it?

I'm not trying to mislead him. I told him I would seek advice from other athletes as to what might work. I know what works for me and my commitment level.

He would be happy with 18:59. He cares enough to put the effort in for one workout/long run a week. He plays other sports 2-3 nights a week (mostly basketball).

Many years away from running have made him content to be a "good" local age-grouper. Each to their own, right? My goals may be different but that doesn't make his wrong.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

When I saw the thread title, I planned on posting "forget it. Not possible." But if the guy has a previous sub-16 and is currently in 20-minute shape (assuming he's not way heavy), that's very different. I had a kid with less talent than that blow out an ACL, sit all summer after surgery, and go from 21-high to 17-low in about 10 weeks, on a rebuilt knee with serious muscle atrophy. Just run! Muscle memory is marvelous thing.

the trainer who trains wrote:

I think a lot of these guys are off base. He won't be able to handle hard 400s.

Of course he can handle 400s. Nobody is saying he needs to go do 20 at mile pace. Just do 6-8 at a pretty hard effort with at least 400 recovery. The point of the workout is about running FASTER than race pace. He can work on endurance during other runs.

I went back in my logs to get the workouts I was doing coming off 8 weeks for a stress fracture. The previous summer I ran a little under 18 for 5k and ran a 3:08 marathon before I had to take the 8 weeks off so I was pretty shocked how fast I got in such a short time.

Here they are:

I ran 18 miles the first week in 3 runs.

I ran 21 miles the second week in 3 runs.

The third week, I ran 6 miles on sunday, 6 miles on monday

and did 440s on tuesday. I did 6 in 86 seconds with 85 sec rest. That weekend I ran an 18:28 5k.

The 4th week, I ran 8 440s avg 80 with 440 jog and ran a hilly 5k in 18:38

The 5th week I ran 7 880s with 440 jog averaging 2:49. I ran an 18:03 5k.

The 6th week I ran 6 440s averaging 76.5 and ran a 17:34.

The 7th week I ran 6 800s averaging 2:40 and ran a 36:26 10k.

The 8th week I ran 8 400s averaging 73 and ran a 17:21 5k.

I kept running 1 tempo, 1 race and 1 interval day most weeks throughout the summer and got down to 17 flat, 35:20 and 1:19 half on about 37 miles a week.

*Note that some workouts are 440 and 880. Our local track was still in yds at the time (2004).

I think a lot of people here are overestimating the work that will be necessary. A former 15:50 guy should be able to get back into 18 flat shape without much more than distance runs and a few tempos. I'm a former 16 flat guy who is now out of shape myself, and I'm sure that I could hit 18 flat with a few weeks of consistent running with no hard workouts (if I couldn't do it right now off of my current 10 mpw training schedule). 18 flat for a sub 16 guy doesn't require a great training plan. It just requires a few weeks of consistent running.