just really concerned.
just really concerned.
He's always been overrated.
I'll bite. He's pretty much the same as he's always been simply because his competition is no better. NCAA's indoors on the DMR this year was among his greatest displays of domination over a 3:35 guy.
One of Wheating's problems is lack of high school experience coming into the top tier of running. He just landed at the top due to the luck and misfortune of his genes and missed some learning which has haunted him since.
He didn't learn those little things that most do and still has poor racing intuition. He only races to win so until he's in a 1:44 or 3:35 race you won't see him run faster marks than he already has. Somehow he still creates bigger barriers within a race than should actually exist but compared to most D1 college runners he's a sophomore in terms of experience. I'd argue that running a bit more cross could have beneficial for him, teaching him that he can push through pain for longer and still have a finish.
Physically he's probably much better than his 1:45.0 and 3:37 but as you can easily witness, he only races for the win and he only goes late in a race.
If he were to pull off the NCAA double victory this year, he'll go down as one of the greatest.
Perspectivation wrote:
I'll bite. He's pretty much the same as he's always been simply because his competition is no better. NCAA's indoors on the DMR this year was among his greatest displays of domination over a 3:35 guy.
One of Wheating's problems is lack of high school experience coming into the top tier of running. He just landed at the top due to the luck and misfortune of his genes and missed some learning which has haunted him since.
He didn't learn those little things that most do and still has poor racing intuition. He only races to win so until he's in a 1:44 or 3:35 race you won't see him run faster marks than he already has. Somehow he still creates bigger barriers within a race than should actually exist but compared to most D1 college runners he's a sophomore in terms of experience. I'd argue that running a bit more cross could have beneficial for him, teaching him that he can push through pain for longer and still have a finish.
Physically he's probably much better than his 1:45.0 and 3:37 but as you can easily witness, he only races for the win and he only goes late in a race.
If he were to pull off the NCAA double victory this year, he'll go down as one of the greatest.
While he's certainly capable of winning either race at NCAA's, should he undertake both, I'd wager that Robby Andrews outkicks him again due to increased fatigue. The only times Wheating has lost to other collegians recently (specifically Andrews, but also last year at Pac 10s) have come when he's doubling. I still think he'd score more points by doubling though, as I can't imagine him finishing any lower than 3rd in either race even when tired.
Perspectivation~
thanks for your thoughtful post.
i know andy would (likely) be much better with a typical progression. you so thoughtfully point out the limitations he has gone through to get achieve all he has so far. i know he would have liked to be a part of last falls xc season but after recovering from his calf injury he found he had a stress fracture. his training is so limited for a runner who has accomplished all he has so far. should he put the day to day consistent training many of us less talented do his career is as bright as any middle distance runner in US history.
he is a great guy, team mate and respects the sport and the people in it. if only the people who post on this board would follow the lead you and andy set the "state of the sport" would be so much better.
So you start this thread right after his 3:37 victory over a stacked field?
hogsfd wrote:
While he's certainly capable of winning either race at NCAA's, should he undertake both, I'd wager that Robby Andrews outkicks him again due to increased fatigue. The only times Wheating has lost to other collegians recently (specifically Andrews, but also last year at Pac 10s) have come when he's doubling. I still think he'd score more points by doubling though, as I can't imagine him finishing any lower than 3rd in either race even when tired.
He certainly CAN win both, but WILL is obviousl a different story.
To a certain extent it depends on how taxing the prelims will be in the 1500 and the 800. His running style should allow him to qualify about as relaxed as one can be but if the pace goes too fast up front it takes a toll.
I believe the 800 is the first of the finals so he'll face Andrews among others with a little more spunk than he might have in the 1500 final.
I honestly don't know if Andrews is the biggest threat in the final unless he is ready to run 1:46 or better. I think it'll take a 1:45 to win in Eugene with the number of guys already at 1:46 and the electricity that is going to erupt when that race goes off.
1500 is tough. He can beat everyone in that field including Fernandez if he shows up and Ulrey if he were competing HOWEVER, on tired legs and if he waits too long there are several who could beat him.
I think it'll be down to him and Centro at the end, but Andrew will need to stick his nose in it earlier than he often does if he wants to beat Centro. I'd count on Lee making his same move and making it hard knowing that Wheating has run more races and Centro covering that move.
I will say this, Wheating is a performer and there is no greater stage for any collegiate, let alone a Duck to compete at than NCAA's in Eugene. He'll show up ready and it will take an impressive effort to beat him.
The only recent race of his I have seen recently was the 4 x 800 at Penn. He may have been tired from a busy weekend of racing, but his leg turnover looked slower than in the past...and not quite the zip we saw in 2008.
The good news is he still has excellent mechanics.
He shouldn't go to Europe this summer. Stay home and rest.
I don't think he ever was that dominant. More like he went through a honeymoon period where other runners didn't know about him. Now when he races he is facing runners who plan their races specifically on dealing with him and who train to beat him.
The 2 big questions about I have about Wheating are: 1. what kind of desire he has? 2. How durable is he? I think he has had enough talent up until now to avoid those questions. But in the next few years I think those questions will have to be answered.
hogsfd wrote:
While he's certainly capable of winning either race at NCAA's, should he undertake both,
My answer to this is, why not? Many people become NCAA champions, heck many people become Olympians. Wheating has 3 NCAA titles and is an Olympian. Almost nobody can ever say they want to do the 800/1500 double and be taken seriously as a contender for big points in both, let alone a favorite in both. Just doing the double and being a contender is more than pretty much any runner in the 800 or 1500 at NCAA's any year could ever do. Even if he were to lose both but be in contention it is an accomplishment in itself and one that very few people share in.
Races to win?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Wheating is not a winner! How can you even think that. If someone is as good as him or a little better they will beat him EVERY time. Think Hernandez/Symmonds/Andrews. Heck Wheating BARELY won NCAA's the year no one showed up. Had a runner as good as him showed up he surely would have lost. He's the type of runner who will come from way behind and come close to the leader and everyone will be like, "imagine if he left sooner!!!" But the truth is we have been imagining for a heck of a long time and absolutely nothing has become of him. It was two years ago that he ran 1:45 as a sophomore. If inexperience was his mojo, the experience he is getting isn't doing much for him. He's stuck. Even the 3:37 he ran was only a VERY marginal improvement to the 3:38 he ran a few years back(yea he kicked big in that on too) The truth is I don't think he has the wheels people think he has. He will inevitably have to move up to the 1500. And as we know he only has average endurance. Ultimately he is 1:44 high/3:33 guy at his best. Nothing to be ashamed of but hes not this steamroller of American records that some people anticated a few years back. But to call him a person who races to win???? He never wins!!!!!!!!!It may look like hes racing to win against Hernandez but in actuality that s the best way he is capable of running as fast as he can "even splits"
ducksuck...you my friend are in denial. Wheating is an Olympian for a reason. He will go on and run the collegiate record and win the 1500 and/or the 800. While you on the other hand, will keep blasting people cause you have nothing else to do. "Even splits"? Are you kidding? Why are you so mad? Wheating is exciting to watch and a great competitor. Take a breath...relax...
A lot of people purposely overlook the fact he was coming off an injury that led to Penn being his first outdoor competition. He'll be fine. I think the people going after Wheating are jealous f***s who are tired of their girlfriends saying they think Wheating is "hot" or some other shit. Juvenile, jealous bastards.
Like I said above, who can you name in the past several years that would have a prayer at doing the 800/1500 double and have a chance at winning either, let alone both? If I remember right he was 70th at XC nationals after coming back from the Olympics and again he ran conservatively and lit people up on the homestretch. That from a guy who has hardly raced cross country. His endurance may be a lot more than you believe.
Wheating is NOT an 800 guy. He's a guy who runs a pretty damn good 800 and has been racing it to score big points for his team and develope his speed.
My guess is that he can progress into a very good mile/3K runner.
People don't run 1:50.0 with one shoe on as a greenhorn (3rd track season ever?)without serious ability, nor do they don't open up indoors in 1:46 off a kick. The limiting factors for Wheating are tactics, intuition and health. The first 2 can certainly be improved and the 3rd must be nurtured.
You don't have to like the guy, but the talent is undeniable.
I see Wheating much like Rupps career except with a later blossom. Putting in all the work while getting knocked off here and there by people who may not rise to his ultimate level in the long run. And careers are made over the long run, not one or two seasons.
Have you ever heard of Lopez Lomong? Does it even ring a bell? You rat fink uninformed tool. How about Nick Willis or his buddy Nathan Brennan. You are SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO
off.
I forgot to mention that Lopez was a contender to win NCAA XC as well. I should have mentioned that. This is a FAR SUPERIOR man to Wheating. And the bad news is that Willis was, well, you know even better. Wheating is not what you people make him out to be. I'm sorry, try again later.
wheating tookabeating wrote:
Have you ever heard of Lopez Lomong? Does it even ring a bell? You rat fink uninformed tool. How about Nick Willis or his buddy Nathan Brennan. You are SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO
off.
Umm, you just proved my point. Thanks for taking the bait.
You just compared him to 3 multi-time olympic/world team members, one of which took a bronze home, NONE of which have ever run 800 meters as fast as Wheating did as a college sophomore (as a teenager) after 3 years of track.
All of whom race on a professional schedule highlighting the european summer season.
Nice point.
Ryan Foreman wrote:
I don't think he ever was that dominant. More like he went through a honeymoon period where other runners didn't know about him. Now when he races he is facing runners who plan their races specifically on dealing with him and who train to beat him.
The 2 big questions about I have about Wheating are: 1. what kind of desire he has? 2. How durable is he? I think he has had enough talent up until now to avoid those questions. But in the next few years I think those questions will have to be answered.
Your post is just wrong on all levels.
I suggest you go back and watch ALL of his races, and then comment on his desire.
Your other questions are true of almost any runner. And none of the questions "have" to be answered.
Athletes at this level train their asses off and do the best they can, their individual histories evolve as they evolve.
Wheating is an amazing talent, a gift to USA track and field, the more important question is what can he do when he doesn't have college to contend with while training, what can he do when he is "just" a Pro, with good guidance.
That last bit will be the key.
Get Real Real wrote:
the more important question is what can he do when he doesn't have college to contend with while training, what can he do when he is "just" a Pro, with good guidance.
That last bit will be the key.
And who will be his coach/team? Vin is a great college coach but his post collegiate coaching is far from extraordinary and he's got a ton on his plate.
He should go with a coach designated to a small group of runners and that's it, so who would it be? OTC in Eugene? They have decent results but not fantastic, especially at 1500. OTC portland groups are much more distance focussed unless he can lump in with Webb as a 1500 guy. Will Salazar even take on another? He's said no but Wheating might have an in.