Videos of Ma's Army World Records FINALLY surface.

What was the deal with the motorcycle guy knocking over one of the runners about 2:02 into the first video?

turtle blood, eh? wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCO3f0paE8&NR=1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuOSbU4N-AE

I never thought footage of this almost mythical meet actually existed. for years conspuracy theories abounded - from short tracks to fabricated results to faulty timings etc...but someone's come up with video evidence of the '93 National Games. They're quite short and not the best quality, but interesting anyways. for one, the track definitey looks like the standard 400m, and Wang Junxia actually looks pretty good for her age and...well, you know.

Maybe sometime soon we'll actually see full coverage these performnaces....because they ARE out there it seems.

Second vid, I'd tap that.

Yeah, that's pretty interesting.If I was going to make a guess. It looked to be a daily marathon training run and it looks like Wang. It's probably the 180th of a 200-part series of daily marathons. That's probably Ma trying to make her from not collapsing from the motorcycle and pushes her down.What a dick!

potato wrote:

What was the deal with the motorcycle guy knocking over one of the runners about 2:02 into the first video?

Looks more like Qu Yunxia to me. Tall and lanky unlike the small waif like Wang. (there's a sentence-and-a-half)

But seriously, Wang Junxia does look pretty good for her age, good to see she's actually smiling nowadays. If she were drugged she probably had no choice in the matter. She was probably of the same calibre the Ehtiopians are today even without drugs when looking at her times.

If I recall corrrectly she ran 20,000 meters in 3 days at Atlanta (the only athlete to attempt the double), in 90 degree heat, and still only missed out on the double by a second in the 10k.

small wang wrote:

Looks more like Qu Yunxia to me.

I think it was Qu, as the interview was with her.

ok, I was a sub 3:50, 1500 meter runner. I don't think that I ever went through the 300 meters in 42.1 en route to a 1500m. Wait a second, the whole pack was through in 44 seconds!!!

Drugs or no drugs... What is this??? That's Lagat pace...

ok, scrap that record...

Case closed...

The vid says they passed through 400 in 57.2 - that really is a crazy pace. Despite setting a world record it looks like they died slightly in the second half of the race - as any female drugged or non-drugged would. A more reasonable pace may have seen Qu and Wang break 3:50.

Thinking about it, I remember Ma Junren being angray at Liu Dong (who paced them through 800) for setting too fast a pace. Apparently the aim was very much a sub 3:50.

Look at this video. These guys are going through in 42.

Longer stride length + faster turnover...

What I see in the Ma video are noy girls running at 42 second pace.

I will be clearer. There was no way that "I" could have broken "4 minutes" had I gone out in 42 seconds... and as I said, I broke 3:50 many times...

Ma's army were either running on a short track or they weren't female.

Short track or flawed clock (if every second = 1.05 to 1.1 seconds then it works)...

They were female and they probably took drugs, but they did not split 42 seconds. The whole pack did not split below 44 seconds. Never to break 4 minutes ever again...

What kind of 400 speed would they have had? Could it really be much faster than 55? I can't comprehend going out near my 400 pr in a mile and actually running well.

It does indeed seem very ominoous if Qu and Wang were able to run 3:50.4/3:51.9 when running at such a pace. It indicates their ultimate potential was somewhere closer to 3:47 or thereabouts.Pace:400m: 57.2800m: 2.00.71000m: 2.33.21200m: 3.05.2It does seem like they slowed towards the end, especialy when compareing 800-1000 with 1000-1200 splits.definitely seems like 400m to me though - and I've enver really bought into the short track theory anyway. Just seems to convienient an explanation. The track stewards and omega timing indicate a professionally run operation. I'm always wary when looking at web footage in any case, particularly when it comes to older meets. Maybe a slightly skewed frame-rate or something...Nevertheless, its very fascinating.

jfb5 wrote:

Short track or flawed clock (if every second = 1.05 to 1.1 seconds then it works)...

They were female and they probably took drugs, but they did not split 42 seconds. The whole pack did not split below 44 seconds. Never to break 4 minutes ever again...

Other example of what 42 seconds looks like. It looks like guys on Olympic record pace. Not a bunch of girls with short strides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GfuqCDtVK0

Apparently Liu Dong, who won the 800m a few days earlier in a 1:54, acted as pacemaker and took them through 800 in 2 flat before stepping off the track, leaving Wang and Qu on their own to battle it out. They were basically running a world class 800m race en route to a 1500m WR.

That second half must have been painful that's for sure...

yes, running a 3:54/3:55 1500 meter, with a 59-60 second opening lap is pretty tough... (which is probably what they did)

As mentioned earlier, the incredibly fast stride frequency is a clue. I don't think you run like that by doing drugs. I'm not saying they were or they weren't, because I don't know. I'm just saying that, technically, the way they ran was fascinating. The fastest turnover rate for distance runners that I can remember, ever.

rsb wrote:

As mentioned earlier, the incredibly fast stride frequency is a clue. I don't think you run like that by doing drugs. I'm not saying they were or they weren't, because I don't know. I'm just saying that, technically, the way they ran was fascinating. The fastest turnover rate for distance runners that I can remember, ever.

They are probably the most well trained group of distance runners ever, from 1500m through the marathon.

Here is a link to the 1993 World Champs 1500 that one of those videos had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY3qHznwxB0&feature=related

The IAAF booklet from the most recent worlds had past results and said that Liu Dong's last lap was 57.48. First two laps were 68.20 and 2:17.58. Then Liu ran 60.15 and 42.77 to win easily. The Chinese had wheels back then.

'The Chinese had wheels back then'

I've got wheels, I could drive my car round the track. I would be as much a legitimate winner as they were