Calculating your five training levels

Look, if you are set on using heart rates, which I do not think is necessary, you can pick up a good book like Jack Daniels' and find the paces that relate to your racing ability. Then, go out on a track in no wind and run those paces, starting with slower paces first (doing 6 laps per pace, except for the very fastest pace - short speed reps, which do not relate to heart rate) and see what your heart rates are. Then you will know what your personal heart rates should be at various training paces. You will have to test yourself every 6 weeks to make sure you are training correctly, but better yet, just race and then look at the chart and run at the training paces listed.

I think using Karvonen's formula is a waste of time because they are too involved and do not result in substantially better training. However, if you have to use formulas, use simple ones that are going to get you in the ballpark. This is my opinion.

I caution you that these are estimates which are no better than Karvonen's, but they are simpler:

Recovery Pace = approx. 70% of max HR

Normal Distance Pace = approx 80% of max HR

Threshold Pace = approx. 90% of max HR

Max VO2 Pace = approx. 98-100% of max HR.

I hope this is helpful to you. Regards,

Tinman

regular pace can't be 80% of max :O

It's not much of a secret that JD's "aerobic" paces are a little faster than most people like to run on here.

Are you saying the suggested paces are too quick in Jack Daniel's book?

Funny thing, someone here commented his "recovery" pace will change during the season (based on heart rate). His pace would be 7:45 at the start of a season then move up to 6:50 at the end of a season.

Maybe this is one reason for basing your running pace on your heart rate rather than trying to aim for a fixed pace suggested by a running calculator.

runduderun wrote:

Are you saying the suggested paces are too quick in Jack Daniel's book?

Funny thing, someone here commented his "recovery" pace will change during the season (based on heart rate). His pace would be 7:45 at the start of a season then move up to 6:50 at the end of a season.

Maybe this is one reason for basing your running pace on your heart rate rather than trying to aim for a fixed pace suggested by a running calculator.

Yes, most of the threads he talks on he says that some people find them too fast to truly recover. He does stress that he was not talking about "feeling" recovered though. The E pace is sort of a speed limit for the ideal physiological response you are trying to develop at that intensity level. (Hope I worded that okay and didn't put anything outside of his theory in his mouth.) They are fast, but, not too fast. They just feel hard sometimes.

The person who mentioned the dropping pace was talking about marathon training, for one thing. Also, that pace should drop. Even if you use Daniels, as fitness improves and training paces speed up, times will drop...though not as dramatically as 7:45-6:50.

Paces will vary day to day. With smart, consistent training, those variations will get smaller and smaller. Nonetheless, you have to look at the emphasis of the workout on any given day. Delayed fatigue, environmental adaptations/factors, stress, poor diet, sickness, dehydration, etc can all slow you down for a couple of days.

I don't hink I stated this but HRM are good for easy days and tempo runs...mainly to restrict your intensity, not augment it. My two cents.

Ah, I never thought of that. I mean the idea you could leave it at home when doing speedwork. I did some easy 100's yesterday and the heart rate monitor seemed useless.

My heart rate could be 118 bpm at the end of a 100m in 18 seconds but would shoot up to 165 bpm or whatever like three seconds after crossing the finish line. Then I only had to walk to the start line again and my heart rate would dip to like 116 bpm.

On second thought, it kind of shows how fit I am since I started training again. I find that kind of cool since I wasn't that fit several months ago. (I'm refering to the fact my heart rate can go down quickly after doing an effort that raises my heart rate.)

I use them all the time, but, I just mentally shut off the "pay attention" button when I'm doing intervals. If anything, I watch the numbers and compare them to similar workouts....keeping in mind other variables of course...sickness, sleep, hydration, weight, etc. Anyhow, shoer intervals often don't do a whole lot unless you are running the recoveries at an aerobic pace. For instance, I used to do a workout where I would do 10 x 100 w/ 300 jog. The 100 was at 400m pace and I wouldn't reach peak HR until 5-15 seconds after the interval was done. By that time I was 50-75 meters into the recovery. My HRM records the numbers and I just pay attention to them. If anything, I make sure to slow down on the recoveries if I'm going a little too high. Plus, I can tell I get fitter when I recover faster. Usually, I found that I would start running recoveries (300m) at about 1:20-1:30 nearing 150bpm whereas when I started this at the beginning of the season, it would be more along the lines of 2:00-2:15 at 155-160bpm. When doing speedwork, I watch the descent (which you are doing) and see if the rate at which my HR returns to a given level (70% or 120bpm) increases from week to week. Usually, if training is going well, it does; if not, I realize I might be training too hard and I try to adjust or take into consideration other variables and ride out the wave of fatigue a couple of days before getting worried about it.