800 Meter Training

5x400m at 800m pace with 5min recovery in between 400's

Longer workouts like 6-12 400-800m hill repeats, 4-6 mile tempos with surges, fartleks, 200s at 28-30 with 30 seconds rest till failure, etc.

Basically workouts that alternate fast running with slower running that is still faster than jogging or just short recoveries.

Get your 800m guy fairly tired-doesn't really matter what does it, it could be a hard tempo, hills, longish run-then do 4-8X200m at 800m pace with 200m jog.

He needs to be able to run that pace in his sleep.

How much do you have him run per week? Does he do any strength training? What's his 400 time?

What kind of rest are you taking on those workouts? I run at a D1 college and those workouts would be monster sessions for any of us(all faster than 1:58). Try doing some 150's or 200's at race pace with short recoveries(maybe 100 jog)

5k endurance and 800m endurance are totally different things.

So endurance training @ 800m pace is the answer.

I added in the rest we took... I have done the endless 200's with 30 sec recovery, the guy did 30 and I cut him off there. The only thing I can think of is to maybe let off the workouts and slow down, he seems to be a workout hero.

His 400 PR: 52.43

Workout Example #1:

600 meters @ 800 Date pace

(15 min rest)

2 x 300-200-200 @ goal 800 pace

(100 walk, about 2-3 min)

Workout Example #2:

6 x 400-200-200; 400 @ 60 sec, 200 @ 28-30 sec

(50 meter jog under 1 min per rep; 250 walk per set, about 4-5 min)

Workout Example #3:

12 x 200 "Muscle Memory Workout" @ 800 goal pace (27-29 sec)

(200 walk recovery, about 3 min)

Workout #4:

1000-800-600-400-200 @ 2 mile goal pace

(200 jog recovery; 5 min after last interval)

100-200-300-400 @ goal 800 pace

(100 jog recovery, 2 min)

How fast will he be able to run 3 x 500m with about 5 minutes of rest? If you want him to run 1.55 min or something like that he should be able to run them in 71 - 72s in average or faster. If he can't do that there is no way he will be able to run much faster than those 1.58 min.

But my guess is that he is just not a very competition minded runner. How much mileage is he doing anyway?

The truth coach is that your kid is not in a true gear in the 800m or 1600m, so both performances suffer - his motor recruitment isn't there. For now point him to the 800 and get him going out faster; he may have better endurance running harder for 600 then hanging on, maybe even 6sec differential.

You have to let him go out faster then connect the dots after a 600m breakthrough.

Your 200m set is a good idea but too fast. There you want to keep him in trainers and slow him down (and he needs more reps for 152). Try 31's maybe even 32 and get him shuffling. He hasn't trained to tie up and that's hurting him, he's falling apart rather than fighting. Let me guess: he goes more vertical displacement when fatigued? Watch an old tape of Johnny Gray, and scale paces accordingly for your kid's capabilities. Your kid needs to be getting out in 54 maybe 53 if he advances through to better competition.

Also let him run some medium hard 1000m reps, in trainers, never more than one or two because he is not developed yet to benefit from more. 245-250 ought to do it.

email if you have more questions.

dsrunner@juno.com

dsrunner has the day off wrote:

For now point him to the 800 and get him going out faster; he may have better endurance running harder for 600 then hanging on, maybe even 6sec differential.

he may have better endurance running harder for 600 then DNF

Based on what you wrote, it's clear this kid's future lies in longer distances like the 5k.

barking up the wrong tree wrote:

Based on what you wrote, it's clear this kid's future lies in longer distances like the 5k.

Could be, but the OP wanted to get the runner better at 800m.

What is his best time this season? How many 800s has he race so far? Sometimes 800 guys need several races under their belt to finally bust one. He has good basic speed, so maybe he is lacking endurance right now. When did he run the 5k at 5:10 pace, in cross country? His endurance may have been great in XC, but you may have neglected it during track.

I recommend doing a shorter tempo say 2-2.5 miles and then do some date pace work such as 4x400, 4x300 etc with longer recoveries. Or you could do 3-4 x 1200 with 200 jogs at a pace slightly faster than tempo. then do the race pace work.

If he is racing at least once a week, too many super hard and fast workouts could hurt him a bit. Focus on endurance and stamina, he will get a lot speed and speed endurance practice in meets.

5:10's were in cross country, this spring opened up with a 10:20 two mile (he is a HS senior). He was sick and hated it. Classic HS kid.

His endurance might be neglected...good point. He did regular 8 mile runs in Feb and Mar but now is transitioning to all speed.

I agree he might be better off in the mile or 5k but he loves the 800 and wants those 3 more seconds to get to 1:55. Though he hasn't broken 2 yet this season so we have a long way to go and why I was asking for help.

I like the 1k idea and the 3 x 500...

I would also keep those 8 mile runs in there all the way until the last 7-10 days before his peak race. If you drop mileage too much too soon, kids loose their endurance.

he's doing way too much speedwork.

all that leads is to a plateau.

distance and hills, distance and hills

for speed, try 100s with very short recovery. try to do as many as possible at a pretty fast pace. joaquim cruz did this i believe.

It's all about the PUMP & Run

'600 meters @ 800 Date pace'

Is that a new type of speed dating?

DocLove wrote:

'600 meters @ 800 Date pace'

Is that a new type of speed dating?

Yea, if you see an ugly chick you run like hell.

You might have to give him a down week depending how the workouts have been going (fatigue). And maybe keep a longer type workout in the schedule to maintain some of the aerobic systems 1000 or 800 reps. Also, 52 isn't great speed so really emphasize 200's getting faster like 8x200 starting at 30 and getting down to 25ish. It gets you feeling that burn at a high level pace. Or pace changing workouts such as 4x600 where the fist 400 is controlled and the last 200 is flat out. It might help with getting comfortable with race situations.