I am training for the 1500/800, with my focus on the 800. I am mainly using Jack Daniels Running Formula, which calls for a lot of tempo and mile pace reps. I feel stronger after these workouts, but breaking 60 would be difficult right now. I am almost at the third phase of his plan, which calls for more 800m pace work. Is 800m pace enough to make me faster at the 400, or do I need to do some faster paced work? Thanks for any advice.
24 years ago, I ran 54.5 at the age of 30 (nothing special) based on 300's, 200's and shorter, sprint drills, practicing starts and playing soccer. The best I did in high school was 59 with a really good distance program. Repeat 400's really are too tough for a workout because running them at a sprint pace probably allows for maybe 2 per workout. I'd suggest doubles on your hard days with a light rest day in between.
Hey Towson, what is your e-mail?
I added my email this time. My PR is 54 from high school, about 5 years ago with an 800 PR of 2:04. I have run 58 several times since then, but that is absolutely all out, including last year when I ran high 2:03.
share the info. i want to know how to improve my 1500 and 800 too. and matter of fact I too am using Jack daniels book. But more focus on the 1500 and 3k.
You most definitely need faster stuff. I'm 50. I ran 56.5 last year, after years of distance on and off. (52 440 in high school - Perry Hall, 1:56 in junior college). I did about a year's worth of core/legs/upper body in the gym with lots of pool running. Followed by a 4 month build-up of 20 minute tempos, plyos, olympic lifts, and lots of track work at near 100% with long periods of rest - 4 to 6 minutes - 300's, 150's and flying 30's. Got my 150's down under 19 sec for 6-8 repeats. Flying 30's in the 3.3 to 3.4 range. Check out speedendurance.comand brianmac uk. Google clyde hart 400 meters too.
There are really 2 questions here-how do I run a fast 400m time as a distance runner- how do I run a fast 400m peroid.As a distance guy you have to decide how much time it is worth and if those improvements will hurt endurance (from time not spend on endurance training and things like added muscle mass).But the basics would be -some fast running 100-150s from a running start to pretty much max speed - some short hill running to build strength. Plyos work great also but you need to know what your doing -A bit of work at longer stuff like 200-300s to get the rhythm of running fast and controlled
Towson Exile Too wrote:
You most definitely need faster stuff. I'm 50. I ran 56.5 last year, after years of distance on and off. (52 440 in high school - Perry Hall, 1:56 in junior college). I did about a year's worth of core/legs/upper body in the gym with lots of pool running. Followed by a 4 month build-up of 20 minute tempos, plyos, olympic lifts, and lots of track work at near 100% with long periods of rest - 4 to 6 minutes - 300's, 150's and flying 30's. Got my 150's down under 19 sec for 6-8 repeats. Flying 30's in the 3.3 to 3.4 range. Check out speedendurance.comand brianmac uk. Google clyde hart 400 meters too.
We have a couple of good points here. First "A" was very accurate in saying you need to do some work to get used to the rhythm of running fast and controlled.
Also Towson Exile Too probably dropped some time. He had the right ideas with the 300s, 150s, 30s and some plyo and strength work.
Here are some thoughts if you have a decent base under your belt. I always found 200m-300m to be a good training distance for the 4. Let’s say your goal is 60sec. Your 2 and 3 pace would be 30 and 45. But if you can’t run 60 you are going to have trouble hitting that. So the idea is to train above goal pace for the 2 and the 3 for a few weeks. An example would be 4 or 5x300 @ 48-49, even 50. The idea is just getting used to something hard. An example for the 200s might be 5 or 6x200 @ 32-33.5. They may be slower but they will also get your body used to the stress. For both take 2-4 min rest. More rest if you are going faster, less if you are going slower. Slowly work your way down and adapt your body to the speed.
My favorite workout was what we call accelerations; others might call them build ups. Start at the midway point on a curve and jog 50m to the start of a straight, from that point do a relaxed sprint or stride for another 30-40m and at that point do an all out sprint for 20-30m. Early season we jog back, late season we walk back, sprint longer, maybe 40m or 50m and wear spikes. But it works well because we go from slow to fast to faster instead of all of the pressure and stress of 0 to 60. It is true you actually become faster in these short 20-40m bursts that are all out. The problem is it is very stressful on the body to start at nothing and hit full speed. The accelerations are a good way to ease into it.
What is your e-mail, and times?
Been there, done that. Do what he said.
400-3000 share the knowledge with me too please?
I was a 53 guy in high school, now in college and struggle 58 thanks to my coach not having a clue. I went from 2:05 to 2:13.
well if you want quick results, 200's and 300'.s run them fast with a good amount off rest inbetween. As a distance runner you dont really ahve teh leg speed to run a 400 the same way a sprinter does. for a sprinter, they'd run a 48 with splits like 22.9 and finish in 25.1 as a distance runner focus on easily hitting 24/25 and go for the even split
Most of you guys have missed the boat. Running 200s and 300s isn't going to improve your 400 that much, unless you're a short distance sprinter moving UP to the 400. For any mid-D or distance runner, improving 400m time is mainly a matter of increasing max sprint speed. To do this you have to do short sprints that allow you to run at near all out speed without sacrificing form. "a" is on the money. Do 100m reps on the track with long recoveries, and do short hill sprints. Do something like 12x100m with a running start with the first two kind of being warmups like 16s, then the next 10 should be in around 14s if you're a 60s 400m runner. You gotta go by feel though. Don't go all out the first few times you do it or you might hurt yourself.
The short sprints on the track improve your leg turnover and form, while the hill sprints improve the power of your pushoff. Both are vital for increasing speed.
For anyone but sprinters, running the 800 is largely about speed. You can't run 2:00 if a 28.0 200m feels tough. The year I implemented short sprints into my training I improved my 800m time by 4 seconds, and it was just because I could go out in 56.x and not feel like I was balls out.
All that being said, don't overdo the short stuff. Just doing 4x100m twice a week after your workouts or runs will help. I would only devote maybe one day every two weeks to a pure speed workout.
You need more speed endurance training.