X-C MAY BE "OUT" OF FRANKLIN PARK/BOSTON

I've never been to this park, but geez, that really does suck if that does happen. When will they vote on this or when will this take affect?

Franklin Park, along with Van Cortlandt Park, is one of the great X-C venues in the Northeast. The park group has given no response to requests from people wanting to continue to use FP as to what they are going to do. They have hinted they will come over to meets, and if the conditions are "too bad" in their mind, they will close the park right there and send everyone home.

The high school groups that want to use the park are looking else where for the 2010 Fall schedule.

A $1 or $2 use fee per runner sounds reasonable to me.

ahollllian wrote:

A $1 or $2 use fee per runner sounds reasonable to me.

Seriously. It's a use fee, and it makes perfect sense. You have your base fee (currently paid) which cover the basic rental of the facility. Then you have a per person fee for the upkeep. More runners = more damage to the facility, especially when the weather turns bad.

Having the state association send volunteers seems like a nice gesture, but really I see it causing more problems than it solves. Speaking as a crew chief of several trail building teams, having people with zero experience "helping" is a huge pain in the ass. Better to have the pros do it.

If a school has 50 runners (a huge team, in other words), it's only an extra $50-100. That's not a lot.

I'd pay an extra $1 or $2 to compete at Franklin Park or VCP. Seems reasonable to me.

Economic Principle #132: You can only institute a fee if the market will not just relocate somewhere else where there is no fee. Example, charging people to pay $5 to park downtown just motivates users to shop at suburban malls.

I feel the sentimental feeling of running at Franklin Park, but MIAA and MSTCA will just move meets to another location. Surely there is another location in the metropolitan Boston area that can host XC meets.

I'm all for XC paying for what it uses, but if people are used to free for a long time, even a nominal charge will motivate relocation to another facility. Franklin Park does not have a monopoly on XC course in Boston, so it seems like just a ploy to get rid of Saturday traffic in the neighborhood.

Please list the other acceptable venues for large, invitational meets in Boston. There's a reason every huge invite in Boston is held at Franklin, just like every race in NYC is held at VCP. It's the best/only venue.

The costs to repair the park after meets outweigh the rental fees. To close the gap, a use fee is proposed. As I said, the larger the meet, the more damage. This just makes sense.

It is a use fee. Perhaps you would like to have a toll booth at the bottom of Bear Cage Hill to collect a $1 from every runner in the race.

This is a public park, in Boston. It is supported by public monies. The Coaches Assn. had volunteered help (from landscapers, builders, etc.) but the group just wanted the money. They get paid a fee for every meet. They show up to open the unit that stores equipment whenever they feel is suited to them. Last year we had to break into the shed to get finish line and other ropes to put up. they came less than an hour before the meet. I do not think they are going to hire "any pro's" to work on the course.

$50 is not A LOT in this day and age. You've got to be kidding. Schools up here are strapped for funds, and you suggest they pay extra to have their athletes run. You know what they will say - Nope. Cost too much.

We already pay a use fee of $2 a runner for our Salem Lake and Frosty 50 races we hold at Salem Lake Park in Winston-Salem. The money goes into a fund for trail maintenance.

With all the pressure to cut city budgets it's one of the few options available to keep park maintenance up. Using volunteers isn't acceptable in most cases because there's no guarantee they will do all work required, and if city workers get involved to coordinate necessary maintenance then they become de-facto city employees and you have liability, etc. You can't really have a volunteer out running a bush-hog or trail groomer.

I'd rather pay a use fee then see the park fall into disrepair or have activities prohibited due to their impact.

The solution may be as simple as lobbying Mayor Menino. Obviously he can direct the park commissioner(s), who work for him, to do whatever he wants them to do. I've got to believe that he WANTS people coming into the city. Also, given the recent flak the Boston schools have taken over their lack of schoolboy athletic opportunities, and the Mayor's promise to address that problem, is he willing to take away a high school athletic facility in his own city? And there are coaches and officials in eastern Massachusetts who supposedly "have his ear." Go to him.

I would hate to see meets outside of FP, but if schools won't pay the fee, Medfield State Hospital is an option. Its about 45 mins outside of Boston, has a nice course (I loved it) and teams have always run there. I know theres the MSTCA Invite there (i think its that meet, might be a different name now) that is a good meet. Just an option

Lotsbom wrote:

I would hate to see meets outside of FP, but if schools won't pay the fee, Medfield State Hospital is an option. Its about 45 mins outside of Boston, has a nice course (I loved it) and teams have always run there. I know theres the MSTCA Invite there (i think its that meet, might be a different name now) that is a good meet. Just an option

The MSTCA invitational is at Wrentham, not Medfield. The TVL runs at Medfield, I believe.

Franklin Park is classic place to hold XC races. When runners list PRs, they can always compare against buddies with a classic 7955m xc course at Franklin Park. It is the place to get a good time for comparison among your college buddies.

Franklin park is great, but I warn you all on LRC mark my words if G-d forbid if something happens in the future -- you have to be careful if you venture on a warmup at fp. This is because no joke this is a pretty dangerous neighborhood in boston just east in dorchester - dudley sq, fields corner, etc. Just be careful. A dead body was found in franklin park one summer in July.

If you want to play, you going to have to pay.

What's the charge for the Falmouth Road Race? Must be free, right?

whatever you do, do NOT hold important xc races at the Grafton Tufts XC course. that thing is a good toughening up course early to mid season, but generally if you run Tufts Grafton 8k XC course hard, it'll take at least an extra day or two to recover. It's a classic XC course yes, but just to warn you it's got uneven lobsided turns on farmland AND a very short hill you sprint up twice that's like a 45degree angle. I mean it's not that bad but the times are relatively slow and it may take extra recovery afterwards especially if you ran it on a hot day.

The hardest XC college course I ever ran was probably this.

Even more challenging was Xavier HS (CT) old XC course. THat thing was so beat man. Most high school XC 5k's at dual meets are classic toughguy XC courses and pretty brutal (but fun).

that is not a fast course.Mayors was real tuff.

I'm sorry but you aren't making a very compelling argument. For the top 7 runners it would be a maximum of $15 per race. The money would go towards a park that gets absolutely mangled by the countless races there every fall. I think HS teams, even in the current economic mess they're in, could handle an extra $15 per meet. Give me a break. That is less or about the same as one of those t-shirts kids buy.

qq qqq qqqq wrote:

Franklin Park is classic place to hold XC races. When runners list PRs, they can always compare against buddies with a classic 7955m xc course at Franklin Park. It is the place to get a good time for comparison among your college buddies.

Franklin park is great, but I warn you all on LRC mark my words if G-d forbid if something happens in the future -- you have to be careful if you venture on a warmup at fp. This is because no joke this is a pretty dangerous neighborhood in boston just east in dorchester - dudley sq, fields corner, etc. Just be careful. A dead body was found in franklin park one summer in July.

I ran XC at Harvard my freshman year ('81). During races at FP, it was common to hear gunshots and occasionally a bottle would be thrown at us and would smash against a nearby tree.

The first day of practice there, the seniors told a story about a guy who fell off the pace during a workout, was mugged, and had his shoes stolen. Once they had our attention, they took off at about 5:00 pace. You've never seen a more determined group of freshmen. We stuck to them like glue.