Argument against Houston trials shows US elites are wussies

God forbid their own governing body do anything to actually help and enhance their careers and performances...

Off the Grid wrote:

God forbid their own governing body do anything to actually help and enhance their careers and performances...

Maybe making them race instead of pampering them would enhance their careers and performances. It works for the Ethiopians.

And there are really only six US elites who can make this argument (Ritz, Hall, Meb, Kastor, K. Goucher, and maybe Flanagan--assuming she moves up). The rest of the US elite marathoners are lucky to see any cash to show up at a race.

This is a rare time where I disagree with you. First, the six elites you mention are the only ones that can afford to skip fall and spring marathons, because they make a good deal of money. The others make it barely from race paycheck to race paycheck and need those Fall/Spring dates. Second, there is no reason to hold the trials in January. It doesn't gain the athletes anything. Third, it has been proven time and again that virtually every marathoner has a decidedly finite number of great marathons in him or her. Noakes indicates that for many, the first or second is the best, while number 4 through 6 are usually the best. Running three marathons in an Olympic year is not going to help us do better. Fourth, none of our marathoners are pampered. Fifth, guaranteeing perfect conditions for our athletes is what you would want if you want them to do their best, right? Sixth, Boston and New York, because of their history and location relative to national media, would have guaranteed a big stage once again for each trials. Houston, by contrast, will be a blip in the news.

You give up a paycheck running the Olympics too. Why should anyone run that race?

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Sixth, Boston and New York, because of their history and location relative to national media, would have guaranteed a big stage once again for each trials. Houston, by contrast, will be a blip in the news.

Did anyone hear about the women's trials anywhere outside of Boston? Not too much, no national media attention. Because no one gives a shit about the women. Sorry, it's true. Having them run the same day as the men will help that. No one really would have cared about New York if Ryan Shay hadn't died, that was the biggest news story. In Houston this will be huge, I'm sure you'll have great local coverage and it will be crowded. Seeing that kind of enthusiasm will help in the future and having both races on the same day will help as well. Houston is a great location, it's at a great time. If you really care about the Olympics and doing well then this is great. If you just want money and are struggling to get by I'm not sure why you would even run the Olympic trials when you have pretty much zero chance of making the team.

What exactly does Adam Goucher know about marathoning?

six people give up paydays for the Olympic marathon, and they are probably paid a good deal for running by the federation and probably their sponsors as well, whereas already 76 men and about 50 women have qualified for the trials and probably a total of about 250 will run the two trials. That's 250 skipping an extra payday unnecessarily, with only a few of them getting prize money for one (instead of 2) races.

Running the Trials is a great honor and gives you a shot, no matter how small, at making the team, but no reason to make it financially punitive for all those runners, some of which with some support might make the leap to elite status.

Tell me one thing about Houston that makes it good. The Olympics are in London. How does Houston help prepare them for that?

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&source=hp&q=new+coverage+olympic+trials+marathon+2007&cf=all&sugg=d&sa=N&lnav=d1&as_ldate=2007&as_hdate=2007&ldrange=1980,2006&hdrange=2008,2008

six people give up paydays for the Olympic marathon, and they are probably paid a good deal for running by the federation and probably their sponsors as well, whereas already 76 men and about 50 women have qualified for the trials and probably a total of about 250 will run the two trials. That's 250 skipping an extra payday unnecessarily, with only a few of them getting prize money for one (instead of 2) races.

Not all 250 of them would have been paid for running a marathon. A lot of them may be missing out on only a few hundred in prize money. Ouch, tough to take. If you're so strapped for cash, don't run the Olympic trials! Problem solved, those people don't have a chance in hell of qualifying anyway. I can't believe people feel this is an issue. Hell, half marathons give good appearance money now and you can make some cash on the roads racing 10ks and 5ks if you want to try.

If the US really wants to win medals, a January trial is ideal. It would force the medal contenders to just focus on the trials and the Olympics instead of trying to run a fall or spring marathon in addition. Money lost running a fall or spring marathon would be made up with the sponsorship money that would pour in with an Olympic medal.

For the elites that live race to race, there is no reason they should skip a fall or spring marathon for the logic behind the comparison to Merga and Tune.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Running the Trials is a great honor and gives you a shot, no matter how small, at making the team, but no reason to make it financially punitive for all those runners, some of which with some support might make the leap to elite status.

Tell me one thing about Houston that makes it good. The Olympics are in London. How does Houston help prepare them for that?

I've seen this several times now. How does Houston not prepare someone for London? I genuinely do not understand where you're coming from on this. Do you think Boston or New York would have more similar courses? Or weather? Please, explain it to me.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Running the Trials is a great honor and gives you a shot, no matter how small, at making the team, but no reason to make it financially punitive for all those runners, some of which with some support might make the leap to elite status.

Tell me one thing about Houston that makes it good. The Olympics are in London. How does Houston help prepare them for that?

You're right, our US Olympic trials should be in London on the Olympic course! Genius!

Run the course/weather similar to the Olympic course. For Beijing, run it in Los Angeles (high pollution, warm) on a somewhat hilly course in October. For London, Houston isn't that close, is it? But for the growth of the sport, you want to have it in a high profile location. How much coverage nationally was there of the recent Houston marathon? How much of Meb's victory at New York?

Having the OT 6 months (not 8 months or 3 months) prior to the OG is more ideal for enhancing performances at the OG. God forbid you should understand that bit of logic.

Off the Grid wrote:

God forbid their own governing body do anything to actually help and enhance their careers and performances...

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

How much of Meb's victory at New York?

That is not fair at all and you know it. The trials aren't on the same day as the marathon anyway, they are the day before.

For reference: Average August temperature of London 65.3 F

Average january temperature of Houston 63 F

Average November temperature of New York 54 F

Average April temperature of Boston 56 F

These are the highs for the cities on average. Houston will have a flat course similar to London as well.

High profile doesn't matter if you can market something the right way. You need to get people enthusiastic about something, having Meb vs Ritz vs Hall as well as having the women running the same day should do wonders for publicity. Houston will work much harder than NY and Boston as well to make it a big deal, what the event deserves.

Your outlook is archaic, national (and international) media is incredibly mobile. Join the rest of us in 2010.So they can run 10Ks and half-marathons in the fall, instead. And if they don't make the team in the marathon then the best of them will be on the track for the OT anyway, not bothering with spring marathons. Just like in 2008. Stop hating just because it won't be in your favorite city this time around.

And 99% of those 250 aren't good enough to earn a significant "payday" anywhere in the US anyway. If giving up $300 is really going to break them to the point where they have to quit the sport and go sling mocha lattes or lace running shoes for fat joggers then they aren't long for this sport, anyway.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

That's 250 skipping an extra payday unnecessarily, with only a few of them getting prize money for one (instead of 2) races.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

For London, Houston isn't that close, is it?

You're on the internet, don't you know how to look up weather history for Houston on the date of the OT and London for the dates of the OG marathons? Turns out the usual conditions are quite similar.

But for the growth of the sport, you want to have it in a high profile location.

Why? The only news cameras in the US are stationed in NYC and Boston? Wire reports can only be filed from Boston and NYC?

How much coverage nationally was there of the recent Houston marathon? How much of Meb's victory at New York?

Apples and oranges. If Meb had set the AR running Houston then that would have overshadowed any NYCM story.

Adam Goucher is not an elite marathoner. Adam Goucher will need to get a job when his running days are over, like almost every other US elite distance runner, and shouldn't be making financial considerations such a high priority in his racing if he really wants to get the most out of himself in competition. US runners who want to be in great position to win a medal shouldn't even be thinking about spring marathons after a fall OT and before a late summer Olympic marathon. Houston sets up as just about a perfect timeframe for selecting the team and then preparing for the Olympic marathon. And, oh yeah, there is prize money for the OT, along with sponsor bonuses for placing at the OT and making the team for London. Stop crying about money, fans don't want to hear about someone who makes a living from running whining about making $200k per year instead of $500k.