Did Johnny Gray Run Up to His Full Potential?

He ran well into his late thirties.

I'm not sure why Jim Ryun would come to mind, except that he was apparently well before your time. Ryun broke the world record in the mile twice, and won a silver medal in the 1968 1,500 in an incredible race.

My impression of him was that he was an incredible talent that kind of fell apart under pressure. And when he fell apart he kind of gave up completely, jogging it in. Kind of a prima donna. So in terms of championships he could have done a lot more if he was as talented in mind as he was in body.

Johnny Gray ran under 1:45 fourteen (14) straight years; from 1984-1997.

I expect you to get a lot of negative feedback for starting this thread, but I've wondered the same thing. When you consider how much extra energy is required to be the frontrunner in a world-class 800, and when you consider the usual views about optimal pacing in an 800, it's not unreasonable to wonder if he had something faster in him, and it's not unreasonable to wonder if he could have finished higher in some big races with different pacing strategies.

Of course, he had a stellar career (as others will point out), and I don't see anything in your post that has suggested otherwise.

altoroad wrote:

I'm not sure why Jim Ryun would come to mind, except that he was apparently well before your time. Ryun broke the world record in the mile twice, and won a silver medal in the 1968 1,500 in an incredible race.

Ryun suffered from a lot of injuries, particularly after his silver Olympic medal. And, of course, there was his '72 Olympics disaster. I've seen this point contended a bit, though I personally believe that he was capable of better than 1:44.3/3:33.1/3:51.1.

In the context of how thinking about the 800 was changing, he was one of the best examples around.

Up to the time of Coe, the belief was that "strength" runners would outdo "speed" runners in an 800

Then came Earl Jones, and people were FREAKED OUT.

Jones regularly went out in 50-51. This had never been done. In '84 he made the US team at the age of 20, and James Robinson ran 143 for 4th. Unreal.

20yrs old and a bronze against 2 of the best 800 runners EVER - Coe and Cruz. And how did he do it? Going out HARD.

JG saw the event changing and realized his best chance was always in a fast race. He trained that way, and raced that way. He too won a Oly bronze, 4 time OG finalist, 5 Olympic teams.

The ideal race in his time was 24-25-26-27. Kipketer tried to take it one step further by going out in 48.

If you treat the 800 as a speed endurance event, then front running is not nearly as disadvantageous as you might think.

I remember watching the 1996 800 final. It had a markedly different quality than the other middle/long distance races that year. It seemed as if all these top notch runners were tiptoeing around the track until the final 400, and then whoever was quickest got a medal. Admittedly, I had probably missed the 10K, but the races were uninspired.

In the 800 final Johnny Gray hammered it from the gun. It seemed to me that he was operating from a completely different mindset than the other middle and long distance runners. He wasn't going to leave any of his race out on that track. He was going to challenge the field to run the entire race hard and beat him if they could. They did start streaming past him on the final turn, but it was a fast, inspiring race, largely thanks to his courage. I've been an admirerer ever since.

Off the Grid wrote:

Jones regularly went out in 50-51. This had never been done. In '84 he made the US team at the age of 20, and James Robinson ran 143 for 4th. Unreal.

The 800m final from the 1984 US Olympic trials was one of the best races I have ever seen. I would love to see video of that again.

Note that gray did not compete for a medal (of course he was past his prime by then). Was it courageous or stupid? Hard to say. It might have been his best chance of winning (long stride, didn't do well in traffic) but on the days he went a bit too fast he really died up the homestretch.

Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoTCuwvKHU

Bronze Medal 1992 Olympics.

Olympic Games finalist in 1996. Perhaps in 1984 and/or 1988 as well.

God knows how many US titles.

Not bad for a guy who "kind of fell apart under pressure"

altoroad wrote:

Ryun broke the world record in the mile twice, and won a silver medal in the 1968 1,500 in an incredible race.

Ryun also tied the world indoor record in the mile.

1984 oly 800m final video link wrote:

Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoTCuwvKHU

He was looking for a video of the 1984 Trials 800. I have pretty much the whole meet on video (It was shown live on ABC) but I never saw that race. Would love to see it someday too. You had Earl Jones and Johnny Gray running 1:43.0 and the AR, John Marshall and James Robinson also at 1:43 and Don Paige at 1:44.

You are correct George, it was the trials race. I taped the race originally, ON BETAMAX!!!

Gray was a great runner with a great career. Not all can hit the Olympic magic (e.g. Steve Scott).

What we wouldn't give to have an American 800 runner running 1:42/43 today. And while not for every athlete, front running works for many top flight 800 runners.

The 1984 Olympic 800 was a marvel. Although based solely on impression, Cruz's last 100 appears to be one of the best ever. And the quality of his finish was underscored several days later, when Coe dominated the 1500 field with his kick. Cruz beat a fit Coe and a very talented Earl Jones.

I recall that Earl Jones was injured seriously in a car accident? I hope that he is leading a fruitful life, and is doing well.

Off the Grid wrote:

The ideal race in his time was 24-25-26-27. Kipketer tried to take it one step further by going out in 48.

Kipketer never went out in 48, and never led the first lap of his (rabbited) WR's.

[quote]Off the Grid wrote:

Jones regularly went out in 50-51. This had never been done. [Quote]

Not so. In the '78 Euros, Coe led the field thru 400 in 49.2. If memory serves he still led at 700 before being passed only by Ovett and (hi-as-a-kite)Bayer.

Someone commented that Gray often jogged in. He was often a rabbit in the Euro circuit. One of those v talented guys that just got overshadowed by a few guys half a second faster.

Who knows if the man ran to his full potential. Who knows if any runner has really run to their full potential and could've run faster in whatever event they set they're PR or NR or WR in. What I do know is that Johnny Gray did something not many others have. He had such a long career that was pretty consistent and he seemed to always be able to run fast from race to race and year to year. It wasn't like he only came out and ran fast at a big meet. He showed up and gave people what they payed to see. He also had a lot of balls to run the way he did and I truly respect his flat out from the gun running style. Not many other people have to courage to do that.