Chiropractic 'science' is dead

You have not actually read the article. Larry Wyatt is a good friend and works with me on journal publication. He is also a radiologist, and that is his point of reference for the construct he examines. But there are other constructs as well. I wrote a chapter that did just what you said this article did not do, look for evidence of how somatic dysfunction creates both somatic and visceral dysfunction, via somatosomatic reflexes and somatovisceral ones. The evidence is completely clear on how much good we do. But I doubt you will go and actually look at that literature since you so clearly could not read this. And you clearly are not up to date on modern concepts within chiropractic, as evidenced in work by people such as Pickar, Khalsa, Kawchuk, Triano, Haas, Bronfort, Meeker, Haldeman, Cassidy, Desganais, and Goertz, just to name a few.

dcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcd wrote:

You have not actually read the article. Larry Wyatt is a good friend and works with me on journal publication. He is also a radiologist, and that is his point of reference for the construct he examines. But there are other constructs as well. I wrote a chapter that did just what you said this article did not do, look for evidence of how somatic dysfunction creates both somatic and visceral dysfunction, via somatosomatic reflexes and somatovisceral ones. The evidence is completely clear on how much good we do. But I doubt you will go and actually look at that literature since you so clearly could not read this. And you clearly are not up to date on modern concepts within chiropractic, as evidenced in work by people such as Pickar, Khalsa, Kawchuk, Triano, Haas, Bronfort, Meeker, Haldeman, Cassidy, Desganais, and Goertz, just to name a few.

Wow, how typical of a chiropractor. List a bunch of terms, then throw out a bunch of names.

Your post was much emptier than the OP's.

there are evidence based chiropractors out there.

a great way to distinguish the type of chiro you are complaining of from an evidence based dc is to utilize art's provider list. not all evidence based dc's are on this list obviously and some non evidence based chiro's may have slipped in too but it's a good place to start.

Also find out where the dc graduated. there are some chiro colleges that train evidence based chiro's and others that train differently.

http://www.activerelease.com/providerSearch.asp

You do realize that chiros pay a bunch of money to go to a weekend shop to learn those ART techniques. There is no evidence behind that either. Chiros live off of the placebo effect.

I'm not completely sure, but I believe your first sentence is a question, right? If so, it should end with a question mark.

Hiya folks wrote:

Wow, how typical of a chiropractor. List a bunch of terms, then throw out a bunch of names.

Your post was much emptier than the OP's.

That's not what he did. You're the type who just posts allegations and then runs, hoping to place some doubt in the reader's mind. Kee-rist, what an amateur.

Chiropractic 'science' was never alive. That will not stop them from scuzzing millions of dollars away from poor souls who are already paying too much for real healthcare. And yes, he did just list a bunch of terms that really did not mean anything. Anyone with a basic understanding of the nervous system could figure out that subluxation is a bunch of shit.

I'll admit that I did not read the articles, but I've got a quick question. Personally, it's silly to think that chiropractic can cure all kinds of diseases/ailments. However, hasn't it been shown that it can be affective for back pain?

back pain wrote:

I'll admit that I did not read the articles, but I've got a quick question. Personally, it's silly to think that chiropractic can cure all kinds of diseases/ailments. However, hasn't it been shown that it can be affective for back pain?

Yes, helping back pain is the only scientifically supported benefit of chiropractic. Unfortunately, they've taken it upon themselves to pretend that adjusting the spine cures all.

For instance, there is a sizable group of them that believes that by adjusting the spine they can increase fertility in women trying to conceive children.

spotting ze boards puzzies wrote:

That's not what he did.

Yes, it is. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Did they teach you to read in chiropractic school, dcdcdcdcdcdcdc?

Thanks. FWIW, I've been seeing a chiro for two weeks for back pain that developed about five weeks ago. It hasn't helped much, if at all. I'm going to go for one more week just because my insurance will cover it. After that, I'll stop the visits. I guess I didn't know what to expect as this was my first attempt at chiro.

I have had successful and unsuccessful chiro treatment over the years. It depends on what the problem is. When I played basketball, I would get hit hard resulting in headaches. If the headache lasted more than two days, a visit to the chiro would immediately take care of the problem.

When I had an accident a few years ago and blew up my back, two chiros, along with a sports therapist, and a massage therapist couldn't help me. I eventually went to a massage therapist who does craniosacral therapy. Of course that is another alternative medicine that according to wiki "Several studies have reported that there is little scientific support for major elements of the underlying theoretical model, which has not been rigorously analyzed"

What I do know is that after 3.5 years of constant spasms of my quadratus lumborum, during the third session, the therapist manipulated my neck and moved my spinal cord back to its proper place. I was running 2 weeks later and ran twice a week the rest of the year. I kept working with her for an irritated disc in my back from the accident and by this past fall was running 60-80 miles a week.

People can think whatever they want about "alternative, unscientific methods" but when you have a problem that matches up with someone who knows the solution, you tend to become a believer.

A medical student... wrote:

Chiropractic 'science' was never alive. That will not stop them from scuzzing millions of dollars away from poor souls who are already paying too much for real healthcare.

It's alot like the global warming hoax. Those that want to believe in it will regardless of the facts. Those who are smart enough not to eat the bullshit being fed to them will always be looked upon as the uninformed.

I have a question for dcdcdcdc as a physical therapy student I certainly respect the evidence based conservative care that is being performed by these "modern" chiro's. My only concern is that this type of treatment seems to be encroaching into care performed by other healthcare professions including my own. While I certainly am not versed well enough in modern chiro literature to have a fair debate regarding practice encroachment I wonder what you do with your patient's when they are also seeing a PT for the same condition? Do you provide duplicate services? Also what do you do regarding billing insurance, will you and the PT both bill the insurance as well as when insurance only covers PT do you tell pts to only seek PT services?

I always assumed people went because it is relaxing, although I have never gone myself. If you actually believe chiropractors can diseases you are a sad, sad person.

Im sick of people trashing chiropractors, when they have no idea what they do.

i knew this was bs science when i was in high school. why it's accepted in general has always confounded me.

A PT student wrote:

I have a question for dcdcdcdc as a physical therapy student I certainly respect the evidence based conservative care that is being performed by these "modern" chiro's. My only concern is that this type of treatment seems to be encroaching into care performed by other healthcare professions including my own. While I certainly am not versed well enough in modern chiro literature to have a fair debate regarding practice encroachment I wonder what you do with your patient's when they are also seeing a PT for the same condition? Do you provide duplicate services? Also what do you do regarding billing insurance, will you and the PT both bill the insurance as well as when insurance only covers PT do you tell pts to only seek PT services?

You are correct that chiros encroach onto care normally provided by other healthcare providers. A high school classmate of mine is a chiro, and she recently stated via a networking site that her young daughter had a cold, so she gave her an adjustment and she's much better. Sad.

If a pt tells me that they're seeing a chiro as well as me, I tell them flat out they have to choose. I will NOT see them if they continues to use chiropractic services.

The problem become greater if the chiro bills insurance for PT services provided when they cannot legally bill for such services. Some chiros will bill this way if the patient's insurance does not cover chiro, but covers PT.

I have a big beef with chiropractors in NC as some of them paid off our Speaker of the House Jim Black (who's now in prison) so their services were considered "primary care" providers and lowered co-payments for their services. This legislation has now been repealed.

This is from the Raleigh News-Observer:

Chiropractors' Cash

Between 2002 and 2005, Black illegally received $29,000 from chiropractors Fletcher Keith and Thomas Brown of Charlotte and Steve Willen of Greensboro, according to court records.

* In February of 2002, the chiropractors gave Black $8,000 in cash at a private dining club in Charlotte.

* In December, they gave him $10,000 in cash at the same dining club.

* On Feb. 14, 2004, two chiropractors gave him $4,000 in cash in the bathroom of a restaurant in Concord. At the same event, the third gave him a check for $4,000 that he deposited into his personal bank account.

* On Dec. 3, 2005, a chiropractor gave Black another $3,000 in cash in the restroom of the Capital Grille in Charlotte.

In 2005, Black pushed for legislation that would lower insurance co-payments for chiropractors. He succeeded by inserting language in the state budget, avoiding public debate. The provision cost the state's largest insurer $8 million.

In exchange for cooperating with investigators, the three chiropractors will not be prosecuted. They also will not face disciplinary action from the N.C. Board of Chiropractic Examiners.

dcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcd wrote:

You have not actually read the article. Larry Wyatt is a good friend and works with me on journal publication. He is also a radiologist, and that is his point of reference for the construct he examines. But there are other constructs as well. I wrote a chapter that did just what you said this article did not do, look for evidence of how somatic dysfunction creates both somatic and visceral dysfunction, via somatosomatic reflexes and somatovisceral ones. The evidence is completely clear on how much good we do. But I doubt you will go and actually look at that literature since you so clearly could not read this. And you clearly are not up to date on modern concepts within chiropractic, as evidenced in work by people such as Pickar, Khalsa, Kawchuk, Triano, Haas, Bronfort, Meeker, Haldeman, Cassidy, Desganais, and Goertz, just to name a few.

Pwnt.