Steve Cram, Gateshead 1985

Splits: 24.97, 51.26, 1:18.28, 1:44.81 ... 2:12.88

Thank you very much for the splits.

Do you know the approximate average of the windy that day in Gateshead?

I believe was a very windy day.

I was there that evening. No idea of any figures, the wind had died off quite a bit by the time the 1000 started though.

The wind was exaggerated to heighten expectations for the viewers. A friend of mine was there and hardly noticed it.

Whatever wind might have been there would have been behind him down the back straight anyway, which would have cancelled out any detrimental effect it had when running in to it.

in a 1K race you run the home straight 3 times, the back straight twice. If the wind had been behind him on the home straight, Coe's WR might well have gone.

He had a pacemaker drafting him on 2 of those home straights, so he only had one to contend with. If the wind is going to slow you down in the homestraight, then its going to push you along in the back straight. So the wind on this occasion is not a factor.

Brit pack wrote:

He had a pacemaker drafting him on 2 of those home straights, so he only had one to contend with. If the wind is going to slow you down in the homestraight, then its going to push you along in the back straight. So the wind on this occasion is not a factor.

Rubbish - have you ever run round a track? If it's windy on a middle or long distance race it will always slow you down (even if you are running right behind someone)

a +3m/s wind on one straight with a -3m/s on the other is about

0.30s

disadvantage compared to 0 wind thruout

therefore, 2 sets of these offer

~0.60s disadvantage for 2 laps

depending upon the direction for remaining assymetrical 100m,

disadvantages by a further 0.40s

or

advantages by 0.25s

using 3m/s as a posit,

cram was scuppered by either

1.00s or 0.35s

his splits woud indicate former...

ventolin^2 wrote:

a +3m/s wind on one straight with a -3m/s on the other is about

0.30s

disadvantage compared to 0 wind thruout

therefore, 2 sets of these offer

~0.60s disadvantage for 2 laps

depending upon the direction for remaining assymetrical 100m,

disadvantages by a further 0.40s

or

advantages by 0.25s

using 3m/s as a posit,

cram was scuppered by either

1.00s or 0.35s

his splits woud indicate former...

Talking bollocks again! One set of formula does not apply to all in Venty land.

Remember when you posted this on here back in July?-

wowzers wrote:BTW most people decided you were a moron when you argued that wind doesn't effect times.

no

it affects times, but not by the nonsensical amounts posters believe

a 10.14 flat guy with +3m/s runs ~ 10.00

same guy with -3m/s runs 10.35

( from wind/altitude calculator

)

basic = 20.28

windy = 10.00 + 10.35 = 20.35

a difference of 0.07s on straights for 1 lap ( you can redo these with a 800m guy of 1'41 with average 100s of 12.6s instead, but ratio will still be virtually the same - we are talking barely a tenth of a sec ultimately )

on curves, wind has somewhat balancing effects, but obviously still detrimental - give it another 0.05s overall for both curves in a lap ( it cannot be more than the wind effect in the straights )

therefore, a 3m/s wind gives a ~ 0.15s handicap/lap or 0.3s over 800m for 3m/s constant wind in the stadium

try again

1000m is 2.5 laps, so according to your former calculations that's 0.15 x 2.5= 0.375.

Now you come up with 1.00. No mention of drafting either. You're always contradicting yourself.

All of which is academic anyway, for as other posters have said, the wind level was exaggerated or dropped. There was no reading of the wind speed during this race so your calculations are pretty meaningless as usual.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Splits: 24.97, 51.26, 1:18.28, 1:44.81 ... 2:12.88

Hi!

Not meaning to contradict you, but I've got slightly different splits!

I have Cram at 25.7, 51.8, 1:18.84, 1:44.94 and 2:12.88.

Not certain though, as I haven't double checked on the actual copy I have of the race.

Maybe you could check again too.

Thanks to all for the answers.

But let's go to an objective information: what wind was in the triple jump, in the 100 hurdles or in 100 m? This way we can do an idea to us of if it was or not a windy day.

They were the supposedly accurate race stats I found. But I doubt they are that accurate on points like the 200m mark - plus maybe the 200m split was for the pacer it doesn't sound like Cram to go out that fast

Do you know what happened to Alan1981 on youtube? He had tons of great videos on there, but they have all gone for some reason

If I get time at the wkend I'll see if I can find the meet write up in AW.

Even if the wind readings are present however, doesn't preclude that the wind was at the same level in this event. As others have said, it appeared to have dropped by the time of the 1000m.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

They were the supposedly accurate race stats I found. But I doubt they are that accurate on points like the 200m mark - plus maybe the 200m split was for the pacer it doesn't sound like Cram to go out that fast

Do you know what happened to Alan1981 on youtube? He had tons of great videos on there, but they have all gone for some reason

Yes, he was being threatened by Youtube on an almost daily basis, for copyright breach. Then the actual big distributor companies claiming to own the rights started messaging him. So he got fed up with it all and pulled them.

I have practically all the same races on dvd too, but have no idea how to format or upload (or is it download!?) them.

I'll get out the Cram race and check the splits. You could well be right. :0)

Mel Watman's report in Aug 17 1985 issue of Athletics Weekly described Cram's time as "intrinsically the greater performance" compared to Coe's WR due to the "cold, windy weather".

The wind speed was 3m/sec into runners' faces in the home straight earlier in the evening and Cram asked the race to be put back from 8.35pm to 9.50pm. However, whereas the wind died at 8.35pm, it picked up again at 9.50pm and was much colder by then too.

"Yes, it was ironic," said Cram. "It backfired really."

As for splits: Coe ran 25.6, 51.3, 78.4, 1:44.6 and 2:12.18 James King and Rob Harrison took him to around 550m.

Cram ran 25.7 (James Mays 25.16), 51.8 (51.55 for Mays), 78.84, 1:44.94 (Cram needed 53.33 for the final 400m and clocked 26.10 with the wind behind him down the back straight. He then needed 27.23 for the final 200m, but fell short with 2:12.85).

Rob Harrison had been in second up until 600m, but Cram overtook him at 600m and Harrison dropped out without ever having taken the lead.

Cram's 200 splits were 25.7, 26.1, 27.04, 26.10, 27.91. Coe's were 25.6, 25.7, 27.1, 26.2, 27.6 - in perfect conditions in Oslo.

Good stuff - that puts my splits out!

Cram, a couple of years later did try the 1,000m in Oslo but I think by then he had lost a bit

I have the video. It was actually very windy in the homestretch, you can see the windflags flapping quite a bit as Cram comes off the final turn. Without the wind he would have been closer to the record or might have beaten it. All kinds of people can post they were there but how can anyone know if they're telling the truth? Coe's record race was a heck of a run and Ngeny's record was a surprise due to his relatively slow PR in the 800 compared to other guys. I don't think he ever broke 1:44 in an open race but he did come by the 800 mark in 1:44 plus when he set the record. Obviously he was a 1:42 - 1:43 800 runner potentially.