Why isn't Cornell better?

Ohh, SUNY-Cornell.

Because the Brojos aren´t any better coaches than anybody else in America. Writing stuff on a running site is one thing, being a real world coach is another.

Having a good coaching philosophy is very different from being a good coach.

It's been over 6 years since this http://www.letsrun.com/2003/rojocornellinterview.php

Realistically, I'd put the state of our cross program as the following. Next year, I'd hope to make NCAAs. In two years, I expect to make NCAAs and will be very upset if we don't make it as we'll get our top guy from this year back and we should be a real force. If we don't make it the year after that, when all of the talented young guys I have on the team now are seniors, then I'll offer coach Taylor my resignation. Maybe I'm on crack, but that's the year I dream about getting top 10 for the first time.

This is in 2003

I think you could ask this question about a bunch of schools in the Ivies. Also, if you include track, Cornell has done quite well . . . . a win this year will set a new record for most Heps in a row (10).

Except that the coaches of the other schools in the Ivies aren't on record in interviews that they'll tender their resignation if their teams don't measure up to their overstated and clear goals for the program.

Every coach is this confident in himself when he starts. Just not everyone has their own website to flaunt their goals which means that people can't call them out about it later.

Most have sense enough to keep such things out of the media, they keep that stuff in-house. Rojo thought his false bravado plastered on this site would score him points in the recruiting department. Looks like he just isn't developing the recruits he gets, on the whole. And Syracuse just leapfrogged them as a destination for talented recruits in that region.

Well, take a look at the rosters of the top 3 teams in that region. Iona and Providence are loaded with foreign, ready-made ringers. Syracuse has seven Foot Locker finalists on their current roster plus a former Canadian World XC team member. That's what Chris Fox did in 4 years. Got the studs. Iona and Providence, like many (if not most) of the NCAA qualifying teams, go overseas to do it. Being realistic, it comes down to recruiting and having a 5th year, which is huge. The Ivies, with the potential exception of Princeton, aren't going to compete with teams like those except once or twice in a decade like Dartmouth did in 2005 when they had a freakishly good (for the Ivies) team and Providence was way down due to injuries.

Within the league, ever seen what Princeton gets as high school recruits? About 6 sub-9:00 guys, including at least a couple of Foot Locker All-Americans, plus a bunch of other sub-9:10s and a couple of additional 4:07 or better guys. No contest there either. Columbia recruits about 75 to 80 percent middle distance or long distance runners and had a solid team this year, yet still only squeaked by Princeton by one point.

Basically, it's extremely hard to make NCAAs without at least a few Foot Locker finalists or foreign ringers or high school runners of similar caliber to those XC credentials (sub-9:00 guys, etc.). None of the teams who make it on a regular basis do it without that level of recruiting. The teams that do it in spite of lesser recruits are one-every-few-years aberrations.

If you have 10+ full rides for xcountry, you can populate your squad pretty well. That's the whole deal behind Providence and Iona. Now you can add Syracuse to the list.

Take their scholarships away and poof! Cornell would kick their asses.

yeah, but i bet if you totaled all of the need-based financial aid that the cornell guys get, it's a whole other story. i guarantee you that they get more scholarship help than the athletic scholarships that the other guys got

If you think the Irish guys, the Brits, and New Zealand guys are coming over for a half scholarship, loans, and work study, you have another think coming.

the other side of the coin wrote:

yeah, but i bet if you totaled all of the need-based financial aid that the cornell guys get, it's a whole other story. i guarantee you that they get more scholarship help than the athletic scholarships that the other guys got

I guarantee you that you are wrong. Most state and private schools offer athletic AND academic AND financial aid. No way that Cornell's financial aid is equal or greater than that.

djhocking wrote:

2. Although Ivy league schools can't offer athletic scholarships, they are very appealing for academic reasons (and you can get academic scholarships and financial aid).

Mostly true but not quite. There are no merit-based scholarships in the Ivy League. So there are no academic scholarships awarded by the schools. Doesn't mean you can't get scholarships from outside organizations or awards, but the schools themselves do not offer scholarships. That being said, the financial aid is pretty solid, though I'm not sure how the recession has affected those numbers.

djhocking wrote:

3. Cornell is potentially the easiest Ivy to get into, particularly because you could go to SUNY-Cornell freshman year, red-shirt and then transfer into Cornell. That is an easier way than going directly from high school.

I agree that Cornell may be the easiest to get into. However, it's also very easy for a student to struggle academically at Cornell. The engineering program is pretty time consuming, and an athlete might have problems balancing course work with high mileage (I also would be shocked if an architect did 4 years of track). There are easier majors at Cornell though, and it might be the case that the majority of runners don't have worry too much about prelims/finals. It's pretty common to stress out about school, especially as a freshman/sophomore.

All of that is speculation though, since I only knew one xc/track guy when I was at Cornell. It didn't seem like he had any problems with schoolwork, but he definitely had issues staying healthy.

Isn't John Kellogg living there and advising Rojo. So he shares in the blame. What happened to his vaunted coaching? Just askin

I don't believe Rojo thought he would set the world on fire. He had a chance to coach an Ivy League school and he took it. Good.

Nightrunner: did you read this

http://www.letsrun.com/2003/rojocornellinterview.php

You're right: good for him for taking a great coaching job. I also appreciate what he and his brother do for our sport. I am just trying to figure out why it isn't as easy as he thought it would be. I think an informed, well-thoughtout discussion of college coaching would be beneficial to other coaches, future coaches, and college runners. It would also scratch my current intellectual itch.

athletes at cornell most certainly have to worry about prelims/finals. every major has them. its cornell, not brown.