This is in response to the Ritz could beat Meb thread. I posted on the thread but thought a thread should be created to show opposition. Dathan Ritz is a great runner and have had a STELLAR 2009 season.
There comes a time when athletes propel themselves to a higher level then they previously occupied.
Galen Rupp in 2009 when he went on a tear and toyed with collegiate competition
Dathan Ritz by lowering his 5000m and getting the AR, following up with a bronze at World 1/2 Mar
Jenny Barringer destroying all her pbs from 1500m to steeple and head and shoulders above any collegiate runner
BEFORE 2009 those athletes had shown tremendous promise; however, this year the rose to another level. While add Mebrahtom Keflezighi! Mebrahtom shown great promise before 2009 but just like the previous athletes he is operating on a higher level than he has before this year.
Mebrahtom beat the third fastest marathoner ever, a 2 time world champion, 4 time Boston winner, sub 59 minute 1/2 miler, five sub 2:07 marathoners. The fashion at which he handle the competition and the ease shows he is better then when he won Olympic Silver!
On a flat course he could have run 2:07 but we have to wait til he does, just like the poster of Ritz could beat Meb will have to wait to he actually does. Could Ritz have beaten the field Meb did at NYC- as good as Ritz is I don't think he would have beaten the entire NYC marathon field!
Come on now Ritz couldn't beat Mebrahtom
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So true
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so much can happen in a marathon that the Ritz could have beaten Meb post is pointless...
how could anyone know how the cold, pace changes, etc would have effected Ritz...look how it took its toll on Hall. Did anyone see that coming?
unless Meb and Ritz are in the same race...there is no point talking about it -
Ritz could beat meb in the marathon
meb could also beat ritz in the marathon
on a different day, hall could beat meb in the marathon
on sunday, meb beat hall in the marathon
people trying to take one race on one day to be conclusive evidence that so and so could never beat so and so (assuming they are on comparable levels) are complete idiots...people have good and bad days
my opinion of meb, when hes on he can compete with anyone in the world on a tough course, but he doesnt have the wheels to run much faster than 2:08 on a fast one
could be wrong though -
Hall is a time trialer.
Meb is a competitor.
Haile G is a time trialer.
Wanjiru is a competitor.
Ritz marathon abilities are not shabby but definitely a tier below Meb and Hall. And much lower than Haile G and Wanjiru!
He will have to toe the line again and we will have to wait to see if he can convert his new found speed to the marathon. -
someone needs to point out that this post appears to have been written by a 'tard after a red bull binge.
VIPAM, you suck balls. -
27:13 for 10000m is not having wheels?
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run for free wrote:
Hall is a time trialer.
Meb is a competitor.
Haile G is a time trialer.
Wanjiru is a competitor.
As to Haile, that may be true recently, as he has not run against the best in a major marathon. But to say he is not a competitor is to ignore his 2 Olympic Gold medals. Its hard for someone who watched the later laps of those races to not label Geb as a competitor. But yeah I see your point as far as his marathon career has gone so far.
Hall needs to go back to the track. Everyone who has been saying that the last year and a half or so is completely right. Go back, touch on speed, then come run some marathons again later. -
Hmm...I agreed with you on that other thread that we need to give props to the guy who ran and won, but I'll disagree with you about Ritz not being able to beat Meb. Almost no elite runner will beat another elite runner every time depending on fitness levels when they race, but Ritz has done enough now (12:56 5,000 and 60:00 half marathon) to prove he's a more talented runner than Meb...and he is. Meb is currently more accomplished because he's older and has been in more races that matter. Ritz though is the better runner of the two. His PRs will all be better than Meb's (except for maybe any race than Ritz never runs again, like maybe a 1500).
Meb ran an amazing race and beat a bunch of great runners who did NOT run an amazing race, and I agree with you that Meb's 2:09:15 (or whatever it was) is probably 2:07 on a fast course. Problem is Ritzenhein is 2:06 or FASTER on a fast course. He just hasn't done it yet...but he WILL...just as he ran sub 13:00 in the 5,000. He WILL do it. Meb's 10,000 AR is just on borrowed time.
Could Meb have beaten Ritz in NYC...sure. He beat Hall and several others who have posted faster times than his. But, you are saying Ritz couldn't beat Meb, and on that point I disagree. He can. He has. He will. -
If I remember correctly.....Wasn't Meb the same guy a few years back quoting himself.....by saying he was the greatest American runner that ever lived(or one of)? Anyone else remember that?
I bet he truely believes that now! -
...'time for this' to grow up...you sick little bastard-no go away!
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Another racist comment by Flagpole. Not surprising. The facts are much different than Flagpole's fantasy.
Meg has Olympic hardware. Ritz doesn't. Meb is the first American to win New York in years. Ritz could have run, but didn't. -
Meb did it period. He is a way taugher than Ritz when it comes to Marathons. He is American whether you like it or not. Lets give the guy a credit for his win. Stop your racist accents and go get a life. I am sure non of you can even break 4 Hours for 26.2 Miles.
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Doug Burt wrote:
Another racist comment by Flagpole. Not surprising. The facts are much different than Flagpole's fantasy.
Meg has Olympic hardware. Ritz doesn't. Meb is the first American to win New York in years. Ritz could have run, but didn't.
Your misspelling of Meb's name aside, my comments have nothing to do with race (just racing). All props to Meb for his win, and I consider him as American as I am. I'm no more or less happy that he won than I would be if Ryan Hall had won.
I even said Meb was more accomplished to date than Ritzenhein...because he is. He just is NOT a better runner than Ritz. Sorry, but he's not. When their careers are done, Ritz will have faster times than Meb in everything from the 5,000 to the marathon. He already has a 5,000 time that Meb could never have touched and a half marathon time that is faster. The 10,000 AR is his for the taking. He gets in a race with good weather, and Meb's AR is history. Will Ritz be as accomplished as Meb? Only time will tell, but to judge how good you are based on how good other runners in the world are at the time is silly. Frank Shorter was more accomplished than Meb, but Meb is a better runner than Shorter ever was (how's that for racism?). Same could be true for Ritz. As the world gets more and more competitive, he might rip off a 2:05 Olympic marathon and end up 6th for all we know. Better times = better runner. Period. Ritz is better. He's proven it. The 10,000 and marathon times are just waiting. Meb is faster so far in both of those, but just as I said he would do in the 5,000, Ritz will bust the 10,000 AR and then really kill Meb's best marathon time. -
Flagpole wrote:
ven it. The 10,000 and marathon times are just waiting. Meb is faster so far in both of those, but just as I said he would do in the 5,000, Ritz will bust the 10,000 AR and then really kill Meb's best marathon time.
Flagpole,
Ritz may be more talented, and may end up with better PR's in all events.
But the real questions are:
1_ would Ritz have beaten Meb in this NY marathon if he had targeted it say instead of the 5k and 1/2 marathon this year? That's a tough question, one we can not answer, but I don't think he would have. He is still learning the marathon, and still appears to be much better at shorter races.
2) The next question we can will be one we can look back on see who has the right answer: will Ritz ever medal in the Olympics like Meb did, or win a major marathon (Boston, chicago, NY, London) like Meb did (or even both) ? I say probably not either.
However, Ritz's 12:56 and 1/2 marathon 3rd have left little room for me to doubt his ability. He could do one of those things some day, but I think he will just miss out on them. -
Meb is a traitor to his homeland. They don't want him and we don't want him!
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Flagpole
It's amazing how some posters get tunnel vision when they are trying to prove a point. Some of those points were:
1.) Ritz has a faster 5000m and 1/2 marathon personal best than Meb. Which is true.
2.) Ritz new form/ability seems capable of breaking 27:13.98 (Meb's AR) for 10000m. Which is possible.
3.) Ritz new form/ability gives hope that he should run sub 2:09 in the marathon. Which is possible.
**NOW**
1.) Meb is a MUCH fitter/tougher runner than even when he won Olympic Silver. Which is true.
2.) Meb hasn't decide if he will run for time in early 2010 or go for Boston title, but is clearly capable of 2:06 high- 2:07 low on a flat course in his current fitness. Which is possilbe.
3.) Meb have several more years of running in a day and age where athletes are running huge personal best into the VERY LATE 30's. Some turning in great elite performance in their early 40's.
In 2008:
Irina Mikitenko (36 yrs old) 2:19.19
Constantina Dita (38) World Championships- GOLD
Lyudmila Petrova (40) 2:25:43 2nd Boston '08
Jaouad Gharib (36) 2:07.15 Olympic Silver
Haile Gebrselassie (35) 2:03:59 WR
In 2009
Jaouad Gharib (37) 2:05:27
David Kipkorir (34) 2:06:53
William Kiplagat 37) 2:07:05
Hendrick Raamala (37) 2:07:44
Haile Gebrselassie (36) 2:05:29
some of those performances were from last year and a year older in 2009 all of those athletes are still performing at the same level or getting BETTER.
4.) Meb still have at the minimum 3-4 years to improve on his 10000m, 1/2 marathon, and Marathon personal best. His new found level indicates he to is capable of much faster times in the right conditions.
The point is that everything said about what Ritz could accomplish time wise is true; however, lets not forget Meb's personal best aren't written in stone. He have time and have shown that his personal best (pre NYC marathon) may be temporary as well! -
VIPAM wrote:1.) Meb is a MUCH fitter/tougher runner than even when he won Olympic Silver. Which is true.
Sorry - why is that automatically assumed to be true? What made this NYC win that much better than his OG silver? In NYC, many of the favorites ran unusually poor races (dos Santos, Ramaala, Makau, Kwambai), similar to the 2004 Olympics, where Tergat, Gharib, Lee and others ran terrible and Ramaala DNF'd. I don't think you can conclusively say that Meb is in better shape now than he was in 2004. Remember he has been injury-plagued since 2004. -
Honors for the "time trialer"
1993 World Championships in Athletics
10,000 metre gold medal
5,000 metre silver medal
1993 African Championships in Athletics
5,000 metre silver medal
10,000 metre bronze medal
1994 IAAF World Cross Country Championships – bronze medal
1996 Summer Olympics
10,000 m gold medal
1997 World Championships in Athletics
10,000 m gold medal
1997 IAAF World Indoor Championships
3,000 m gold medal
1999 World Championships in Athletics
10,000 m gold medal
1999 IAAF World Indoor Championships
1,500 m gold medal
2000 Summer Olympics
10,000 m gold medal
2001 World Championships in Athletics
10,000 m bronze medal
2001 IAAF World Half Marathon Championships winner
2003 IAAF World Indoor Championships
3,000 m gold medal
2003 World Championships in Athletics
10,000 m silver medal -
Flagpole wrote:
Better times = better runner. Period. Ritz is better. He's proven it.
Nice logic here Flagpole. Do better times really equal a better runner? Is Alberto Salazar a better runner than Paavo Nurmi? Is Deena Kastor a better runner than Joan Benoit? Hardware is the mark of a true champion. Meb has some. Ritz doesn't and most likely won't. This is further evidence that you are most likely a racist.
Even if your logic is true, which it's not, Meb has a faster PR in the 10K and marathon. So how is it that you can say that Ritz has proven that he is better than Meb? This sounds like another Flagpole fantasy to me. Sad, but true.
