Serial Marathoners Every Think You're Running Too Many Marathons...

I think running year after year is healthy for you. Period. As long as you have no pre-existing condition like enlarged heart, irregular heart beat.

I don't think marathons are the healthiest way to stay in shape. The marathon itself puts the body under a good deal of stress, especially if you 'race' the marathon as opposed to 'complete' the marathon.

I think you can get all the cardiovascular benefits the constitute a 'healthy' individual by simply exercising 30-60 minutes 4-6 days a week. The rest comes from lifestyle choices (don't smoke, don't drink a lot, eat healthy).

How to contact Mary Akor?

For a lot of people, the marathon is a reason to get out the door and stay motivated. My last marathon was in 2005, and my motivation has been going steadily downhill since. My PRs were all set years ago, so I can't figure out a good reason to get in reasonable shape (for me).

a couple i can thin of who ran lots of quality marathons,

kjell erik stahl of sweden and doug kurtis of michigan seemed to run a sub 2:20 marathon every 3-4 weeks in the 1980's.

alsoi would think top marathoners probably run a run of about marathon length every 7-14 days, i would not be surprised if sub 2:09 marathoners ran a training run of about marathon length in 2:15-2:30, they just dont bother with doing it officially because they dont want to travel for a training time that is very slow for them.

I think running lots of marathons over the years, say one or two, will make one slower in that distance over time than she'd otherwise be. Nothing scientific though. You can extrapolate from those guys at LetsRun:

LetsRun.com has few official corporate policies. One rule, however, that may be our 1st formally adopted rule is advice we always give first-time marathoners and even gave to Paula Radcliffe after her first one: “Marathons take a lot of time to recover from.” As a result, we think it’s really risky to try do more than two per year (and we’re glad to see Ryan Hall has officially adopted this as his rule as well – although we actually okayed his decision to run London last year).

http://www.letsrun.com/2009/weekthatwas0428.php

Wejo,

I had a stretch from 2004-6 in which I ran 6 marathons a year, and that was a bit much, but I've been doing 2 or 3 year since then and find it very enjoyable.

Having an event - and a trip - on the horizon provides motivation and a schedule that might otherwise stagnate. Marathons are a great reason/excuse to rally a group and get to an interesting destination.

I'm not especially quick with a best of 2:42, nor am I into high mileage with a usual schedule in the 50's per week. So that doesn't necessarily tie in with "more is better" in the short term. However, I believe in another sense that more events and destinations are indeed healthy since they can lead to sustained participation. I also think the relatively light schedule (at least relative to many letsrun posters) has prevented burn out, and made continuity much easier since at ~1 hour per day on average I'm not really giving up much with work, socially, or other hobbies to train. As nice as a 2:3x would be, I'm just not going to sink the miles and time into chasing what I believe would be at most 10 minutes faster. Nothing against people who are pursuing their absolute best, but I personally see few of them who end up content with what they've done, and fewer still who stick with it.

I'm not on board with the 50 staters or the folks who lead pace groups every other week, and I'd be interested to hear what motivates them. Mixing and mingling is great, and I may not always be shooting for a best, but I'd rather pull my toenails out than run 2 minutes per mile slower. For me its a way to integrate exercise, travel, and challenging but reasonable goals to stay interested and enjoy it.

btw - I've done New York twice, including capping a 3 marathons in 4 weeks stretch a few years back with a hobbled 2:45 finish. That was too many. I took a good while before getting back into it, and it did frankly get me believing that the notion of only have so many hard marathons in your legs has some merit.

[quote]JoeGarland wrote:

I think running lots of marathons over the years, say one or two, will make one slower in that distance over time than she'd otherwise be. Nothing scientific though. You can extrapolate from those guys at LetsRun:

See Noakes p. 480. It's not just the best times with 1 or 2 a year, but a couple or a few, period.

[quote]JoeGarland wrote:

I think running lots of marathons over the years, say one or two, will make one slower in that distance over time than she'd otherwise be. Nothing scientific though. You can extrapolate from those guys at LetsRun:

See Noakes p. 480. It's not just the best times with 1 or 2 a year, but a couple or a few, period.

Coach D wrote:

See Noakes p. 480. It's not just the best times with 1 or 2 a year, but a couple or a few, period.

I don't have Noakes. Could you be clearer?

I'm a relatively slow (right at BQ pace) middle-aged guy and I ran 3 in 2008. That was too many for me. I'm running my 7th next month and feel like I'm running better this time around having gone through short "speed" work for the first half of the year, then some mid-distance racing in mid-summer (including a significant HM PR) and now a fall marathon after peaking at around 60 mpw in training.

It's also easier on the wallet with the reduced entry fees, travel expenses and one or two less pairs of trainers.

I like your attitude towards running. On 50 MPW I would also say you're pretty talented. Have you run any ultras? Your thoughts towards running makes me think you may enjoy them...

btw - I've done New York twice, including capping a 3 marathons in 4 weeks stretch a few years back with a hobbled 2:45 finish. That was too many.[/quote]

Nice post. I don't really understand this part, though. Your best is 2:42, but you capped a 3 marathons in 4 weeks stretch with a hobbled 2:45 finish? 3 minutes off your best? That doesn't sound too hobbled.

JoeGarland wrote:

I don't have Noakes. Could you be clearer?

Noakes, Lore of Running, Fourth Edition, p 480

In Chapter 6: Learning From the Experts

"Most Ran Their Best Marathons When Inexperienced

This is clearly shown by Ron Hill, who ran his best marathon race in 1970 after he had been racing marathons seriously for one year. During the remaining 7.5 years of his serious athletic career, he never again ran as fast."

He also includes the following...

"...elite marathoners should race a maximum of one or two marathons per year for two years before taking a complete break from marathoning for a full two years."

and...

"Since 1948, the average number of marathons run by the Olympic champions before their first win has been 3.1."

Since 1999 i've probably run on average a marathon a year. And I think this is fine.

My feeling is that a healthily-finished marathon could be in the athletic repertoire of most human beings, with motivations ranging from personal betterment to athletic sightseeing and everything, every combination, in between.

Sometimes, all motivations and factors converge and the optimal takes place: you do your best, have a great time and feel healthy and excited about it.

However, one of the primary motivations for all long-distance endeavours has to be the ability to make-it in adverse conditions. Oversimplifying, if you run out of gas 13.1 miles from the nearest gas station, you marathoner fearlessly, know you'll be able to make to the car and back. And that's no small thing in our common need to be self reliant. And this leads to all forms of excesses: from unbelievable depression of a DNF to serious injury due to overtraining.

Making people aware of limits and objectives is and should always be a priority. A priority that can be extremely enjoyable.

In Taiwan, we have several Michael Wardian types who run 15-20 marathons/year. Many in the same weekend.

There is one guy now 47, he ran 2:31 @ tokyo in '07 in the middle of a string of 2:3x-2:4x marathons

There is another guy in his 30s, who runs 2:3x-2:4x every time, even on back to back days. His PR is 2:32.

these two guys always go out together in 1:15. Sometimes its good, and sometimes it sucks

~~~~~~~~ wrote:

JoeGarland wrote:

I don't have Noakes. Could you be clearer?

Noakes, Lore of Running, Fourth Edition, p 480

In Chapter 6: Learning From the Experts

"Most Ran Their Best Marathons When Inexperienced

This is clearly shown by Ron Hill, who ran his best marathon race in 1970 after he had been racing marathons seriously for one year. During the remaining 7.5 years of his serious athletic career, he never again ran as fast."

He also includes the following...

"...elite marathoners should race a maximum of one or two marathons per year for two years before taking a complete break from marathoning for a full two years."

and...

"Since 1948, the average number of marathons run by the Olympic champions before their first win has been 3.1."

Ron Hill was only racing marathons seriously for one year?

Surely he was a very talented national level runner leading up to that time. Was he racing marathons 'non-seriously' before that?

I think that comparing world class runners to the average couple-marathons-a-year fitness runner is shakey. It takes a lot more dedication/luck/talent to pop those WRs after years of training than putting in 50 or 60 MPWs like us casual marathoners. Combining this with the natural decline in performance due to aging, I think, explains why it seems that most of the high level runners 'only have a couple of fast marathons in them.'

Of course, I could be wrong....

I've run NYC each of the last two years (my first two marathons) and will give it another go in ten days or so. Recovery of just three days before a workout the first year (definitely too little and shouldn't have started up so fast, but no injury resulted) and recovery of seven days (seemed too little, wasn't mentally and physically fresh yet) before months of easy running the second year: in both cases I went on to run a string of pr's at shorter distances in the six months following the marathon. Noakes argues that recovery is inadequate and following Salazar that people should train for 10000m or shorter much of the time, only ramping up the long runs before doing the occasional marathon, in order to run their best. This has worked well for me on my level (2:40s).

4 per year (or one every 13 weeks) is ideal for me.

Schedule is something like this:

Week 1: recovery from previous marathon-light jogging only

Week 2: recovery from previous marathon-light jogging only

Week 3: Fundamnetal work - good mix of speed and tempos

Week 4: Fundamnetal work - good mix of speed and tempos

Week 5: Fundamnetal work - good mix of speed and tempos

Week 6: Fundamnetal work - good mix of speed and tempos

Week 7: Fundamnetal work - good mix of speed and tempos

Week 8: Specific Work - longer runs and MP work

Week 9: Specific Work - longer runs and MP work

Week 10: Specific Work - longer runs and MP work

Week 11: Specific Work - longer runs and MP work

Week 12: Specific Work - longer runs and MP work

Week 13: Taper and race

well, do ya?