The medical residency is pure bullshit

stupid is as stupid does wrote:

Spending 80+ hours is a necessity not a virtue. I am sure that you know all about residency, but you do realize that the system of residence that is in place makes healthcare possible in many places?

There are only so many attendings and so many residents. The residency program is akin to the apprentice program for carpentry. You can do the work, but you are checked on and guided through. You are made BETTER by people who know more than you.

Suck it up. Seriously.

I have no objection to 80 hour weeks nor apprenticeships. I think if the residency requirement were abolished, a new system of voluntary apprenticeship would emerge in its place to allow new doctors to develop their skills and reputations, and that it would be far more rational and efficient than the current system of self-sacrifice, subjugation and slave labor.

To be fair, the government controls Medicare (despite what the majority of this country apparently thinks), and Medicare controls much of what goes on with regards to residency programs (including paying for them).

Deterred,

You don't, by chance, own a tinfoil hat?

nelson wrote:

In fact, things have been WORSE, largely attributed to patient hand-offs between shifts (it used to be a resident could follow his patient for as long as necessary to see that a specific treatment/procedure was carried out correctly . . . but now after a specific period of time, you legally have to leave the hospital grounds or risk your program's accreditation).

this is unadulterated bologna propagated by the AMA to protect their own asses.

80 hour weeks, particularly with 14+ hour shifts, are stupid for someone who is dealing with life and death situations.

the reason they don't want shorter hours is b/c that would require more doctors, and they keep a strict stranglehold on that. in addition, like someone else said, it's a right of passage in this old world system.

another thing is you don't need these highly trained pros for simple office visit bullshit like removing a wart or treating a virus. we could easily reduce costs with more PAs, minute clinics, etc...but again, the AMA is powerful and rich, and won't let it happen.

deterred wrote:

I think if the residency requirement were abolished, a new system of voluntary apprenticeship would emerge in its place to allow new doctors to develop their skills and reputations, and that it would be far more rational and efficient than the current system of self-sacrifice, subjugation and slave labor.

I can't believe you can't understand how absolutely terrible an idea that is.

You think that'd work? Geez, you're dumber than we all assumed.

The hours and length of residency really depend on your specialty. If you are doing something like surgery, well guess what, it's going to take you 7 years of 80 hour weeks to truly have the knowledge you need to function on your own. Other specialties are quite a bit easier. As others have said, it's a necessary evil. You learn by doing.

Also look at any other highly paid profession. You may not have to spend a couple years getting paid crap, but lets say you work on wall street, you will probably be working 80 hour weeks until you burn out or retire. At least in medicine you bang out the really tiring stuff during residency and once you are an attending you actually have a pretty good schedule and get paid really well.

a;ldskfja;slfaks wrote:

I can't believe you can't understand how absolutely terrible an idea that is.

You think that'd work? Geez, you're dumber than we all assumed.

Woah, the logic is overpowering, case closed I guess. What a formidable opponent you are.

Why don't you just become a Physician Assistant?

www.aapa.com

deterred wrote:

a;ldskfja;slfaks wrote:

I can't believe you can't understand how absolutely terrible an idea that is.

You think that'd work? Geez, you're dumber than we all assumed.

Woah, the logic is overpowering, case closed I guess. What a formidable opponent you are.

I know you're being faceitious due to my ad hominem attacks, but if you could get past my untoward attitude you'd realize I'm correct.

"Ok, medical students! Now that you've graduated, who wants to spend 3-7 more years training hard while working for peantus?! No one? Gee willickers, that's odd. Well, ok, go get those patients then! What? You don't actually know how to manage patients? Oh right, that's what you would learn in your volunteer residency . . . Oh well, just try not to kill them!"

That is essentially what you're proposing.

I don't think you are concerned in the slightest about patients, all your protestations to the contrary.

Frankly, I want people like you to suffer a very long and difficult residency. I hope you learn some humility because right now you have zip.

Mostly I hope you never become a doctor of any sort because you are the last type of person I want treating myself or my loved ones.

*peanuts

deterred wrote:

The guy who said that it is all about established tradition is spot on. You are determined to believe that the status quo is correct and that whatever you did is the best way of doing things and you simply refuse to even consider any other possibility. For all your years of formal training you still lack the ability to think rationally about anything. You just repeat what someone else told you.

Again, welcome to this realization. The medical healthcare system is a fraud, all about acceptance of medical hierachy, obeying orders without thinking, and perpetuating the myths, raking in more profits while the public is slaughtered.

Your questioning attitude demonstrates that you do not have what it takes to work in the medical healthcare field. Good for you!

no chance in hell wrote:

I don't think you are concerned in the slightest about patients, all your protestations to the contrary.

Frankly, I want people like you to suffer a very long and difficult residency. I hope you learn some humility because right now you have zip.

Mostly I hope you never become a doctor of any sort because you are the last type of person I want treating myself or my loved ones.

Of course he's not. He's frustrated that he'd actually have to work hard to become a doctor. Him and 65% of all college freshmen who proudly proclaim "I'm pre-med!" until about December comes and they have their first set of finals.

That's why he's proposing we have volunteer/optional residency. That way he can still call himself "doctor" without actually completing a residency, while hoping that everyone else does so that the medical system doesn't fold in and eat itself.

J.R. wrote:

deterred wrote:

The guy who said that it is all about established tradition is spot on. You are determined to believe that the status quo is correct and that whatever you did is the best way of doing things and you simply refuse to even consider any other possibility. For all your years of formal training you still lack the ability to think rationally about anything. You just repeat what someone else told you.

Again, welcome to this realization. The medical healthcare system is a fraud, all about acceptance of medical hierachy, obeying orders without thinking, and perpetuating the myths, raking in more profits while the public is slaughtered.

Your questioning attitude demonstrates that you do not have what it takes to work in the medical healthcare field. Good for you!

Haha, spoken like a true Mercola disciple.

I guess in this crappy economy, losers are looking for more and more scapegoats. Medicine is a popular one.

We should do it how they do it in other countries:

The government owns all the medical schools and controls how many people get to be in these professions. You go to medical school straight out of high school, none of that four year degree requirement bullshit. Medical school tuition costs the same as undergraduate tuition. Medical, dental, pharmacy, and physical therapy all take the same prereq classes for the first one or two years with some big finals. Most (80%-90%) get weeded out and have to start over or pursue something else. The top students go into surgery, then other medical, then dentistry, pharmacy, and physical therapy. You make $50k-$100k/year but on the other hand you don't have $100k+ worth of loans, and you graduate a couple years earlier than you would have if you were in the US.

Yes. This is correct and is one of the fundamental problems with everything tied to reform as well. Anybody who says otherwise is either naive or attempting to justify their salary/position. I will not try to back this up with facts because... well... frankly, I could get fired for that.

Please... wrote:

Yes. This is correct and is one of the fundamental problems with everything tied to reform as well. Anybody who says otherwise is either naive or attempting to justify their salary/position. I will not try to back this up with facts because... well... frankly, I could get fired for that.

Haha, riiiiiiiiight.

You an altie, by any chance?

His comments are spot on and are not an indictment against individuals but against a system. Riddle me this... should the average salary of specialty disciplines come down? Why haven't they? Is this truly the free-market at play? Use some deductive reasoning and draw your own conclusions.

Nobody is saying that this is the only problem with health provision in this country but it is a damn big one. Unless you are a GP then take a look in the mirror and reconsider your position... and frankly if you are a GP then you are either a very good person or not the brightest.

Sorry, J.R., but when you use phrases like

"and perpetuating the myths, raking in more profits while the public is slaughtered"

and

"Your questioning attitude demonstrates that you do not have what it takes to work in the medical healthcare field. Good for you!",

you automatically get placed in the "wears a tinfoil hat in his mother's basement" category.