Let's have an honest and intelligent discussion. Al Sal has taken his athletes extremely far. While they didn't do much of note this last world championships, they are poised to dominate the US scene and maybe make some noise internationally over the next 5 years.
Rupp will do some dominating for sure. Adam is done. Ritz is a wild card, he could improve or he could have already hit his peak. He was training hard under Hudson and had a ton of resources at his disposal. No matter what you think of Hudson it's not likely that much will change training or support wise under salazar. Kara is also a wild card, great talent but hasn't been able to put it all together yet. She wants a family and the time off and stress of having and then raising kids could easily end a career, or at the very least cause some delays in returning to training at a high level.
I hope they all put together some great times but lets be honest, success at the world level in our sport does not mean dominating in the US. It means winning WC and Olympic medals, placing high in international races and winning major marathons.
My predictions:
Adam Goucher will debut with a 2:16 and retire
Kara will come back to medal in 2011 and 2012
Alan Webb will never PR again but he'll place top 5 in 2011 and then medal in 2012
Rupp will never medal in the 10K; maybe top 5 in 2011; he'll race the 10K in London and then move to the marathon
Ritz will never medal in the 10K; he'll run the marathon in 2012 but won't medal
Amy Begley will run the marathon in 2012 but won't medal
Side note: No American male runner will ever medal in the 10K. It's a lost cause.
I wouldn't say he's taken them extremely far, but he has taken them far, and possibly to a point they maybe didn't realize they could reach. They didn't do much this last world champs as far as medaling, but they made progress, and progress is always good. I think Joe Newton said it best:
"Success doesn't happen over night. It usually takes about 4 years."
Bolt Fan wrote:
Let's have an honest and intelligent discussion. Al Sal has taken his athletes extremely far. While they didn't do much of note this last world championships, they are poised to dominate the US scene and maybe make some noise internationally over the next 5 years.
Does "AL Sal" pay a group of idiots to continually post good things about him on these boards? I can't understand why everyone is so infatuated with him. Take a guy like James Li he has coached Bernard Lagat to how many medals in the world championships and no even mentions him. He lives in Arizona and i'm sure would train some of these other US athletes that are looking for that edge. Yet it seems like every single day there is some tard on these board gobbling AL Sal because he got Rupp to a what 8th place finish at worlds. I'm sure he is a good coach but for crying out loud he is not the messiah of US distance running.
Several things worth remembering. A) Salazar is mostly coaching athletes who were already proven winners before they got to him; B) It's not easy to take fast people and make them faster; C) When you're near the top, it's more likely that you fall short of your goals than attain them.
Rupp is a clear exception to A) above, as Salazar did develop him.
Overall, I'd have to give Salazar very high marks. He's obviously devoted to his athletes, and vice versa. That's about 99 percent of the equation.
By contrast, the Hansons work with much less talented athletes, and have some successes, some less than great successes (like all coaches, ie, Mahon, McMillan.) In present setups, Hanson athletes will never match Salazar athletes. Which doesn't make Hanson program a failure. Just different than Nike-Salazar/Schumacher, etc.
I'm not optimistic about American distance runners vs the (East African) World, but if I were a young 27:50 American guy, I'd beg to get into the Salazar program. What other approach would offer me a better chance?
who the f*** knows
I remember when friggin Finland dominate distance running
The Finns will rule running for ever they have a genetic advantage.
I think AlSal has been doing well. No doubt.
I do think Webb should have gone to Jerry if he wanted to be in Portland (especially if he has any thought of moving up), Cook if he wanted someone familiar, or Li if he wanted something completely different.
Salazar would be option 4 if I was Webby.
Well I posted a negative thread about him. But then I got a job at Nike and then offered me two contracts. The first, if I continued to be negative about Al Sal, was small. The second contract was lucrative and required me to be start threads like this.
fgfg wrote:
I remember when friggin Finland dominate distance running
The Finns will rule running for ever they have a genetic advantage.
Blonde males are real rare birds, but look how many Nordic types are top American distance runners: Webb, Tegenkamp, Evan Jager, Rupp, Nelson, Bauhs, Hall, etc. That shouldn't be happening based on percentages of population.
Bolt Fan wrote:
Well I posted a negative thread about him. But then I got a job at Nike and then offered me two contracts. The first, if I continued to be negative about Al Sal, was small. The second contract was lucrative and required me to be start threads like this.
Damn those Nike bastards! I knew there was a conspiracy going on here. On a side note how much do you make because i might look in to Al Sals good points if you know what i mean ; (.
What the heck? wrote:
Does "AL Sal" pay a group of idiots to continually post good things about him on these boards? I can't understand why everyone is so infatuated with him. Take a guy like James Li he has coached Bernard Lagat to how many medals in the world championships and no even mentions him.
99% of the running world could care less about coaching an east African to success. How are your non-Africans runners performing? That's all (surprise!), that non African runners care about.
nbvcch wrote:
99% of the running world could care less about coaching an east African to success. How are your non-Africans runners performing? That's all (surprise!), that non African runners care about.
No actually I think that's all racist losers like you care about. If you were a true fan of track you would care about what all the great runners were doing all over the world not just people who happened to be descended from Europeans (lets face it you don't give a damn how the Japanese runners did at worlds do you?) How have those non Africans been doing under the great AL Sal? Oh Rupp got 8th at worlds amazing! My point was maybe if they trained like the east Africans by using the same coaches they might run like them, kind of a simple concept huh? Remember when Bob Kennedy trained with the Kenyans and ran 12:58 i.e. faster than Lagat (the east African) has ever run. Watch the link below if you want BK to sum it up better than i ever could.
http://www.flotrack.org/videos/speaker/234/4617-the-kenyansWhat the heck? wrote: Remember when Bob Kennedy trained with the Kenyans and ran 12:58 i.e. faster than Lagat (the east African) has ever run. Watch the link below if you want BK to sum it up better than i ever could.
Kennedy didn't "train" with Kenyans -- he traveled with them to competitions. A workout here and there isn't training.
Kennedy absolutely trained with several Kenyan athletes
http://www.mensracing.com/photos/2004/bouldergroup04/boulder04.jpg
http://www.mensracing.com/photos/2004/bouldergroup04/boulder03.jpg
You're both right, though BN, your reference to BK in 2004 isn't a good support of your argument.
In 2004, BK was training for the marathon with Dieter and had several African training mates. He didn't finish the race he was training for (NY) while he was training with Dieter and his African contingent.
When he was in his 5k prime, he was coached and managed by Kim Mcdonald. He was based out of London for much of the year and would frequently work out with Kim's athletes (which included Daniel Komen).
He always would bounce ideas off of Marcus O'Sullivan (few realize this) and Marcus actually coached him when Bob made an attempt at a fast 10k (Marcus coached him to his PR). I don't know if he trained with any Africans during the Marcus years.
Kennedy said in an interview once that he did a workout with Kim McDonald's group, which included among some top Kenya runners, Daniel Komen. Here's the workout they did:
1 x (1600, 1200, 800, 400) w/ 3 min rest between each interval
Here's what Kennedy ran for the workout:
3:57, 2:56, 1:55, 55
And he said he was toward the middle or back of the pack of runners doing this workout. Komen was in the front, and here's what he ran:
3:54, 2:53, 1:54, 55
And here's the link if anyone is in strong disbelief:
How cool would it be to have all the time in the world to run that kind of mileage and that intense of workouts and to have the resources to recover? Bob should try and train some of our guys. Give them a sense of what they need to do to become sub 13:00 5k guys. What I find interesting is his statement that early in the season, the focus was on doing the sessions as hard as he could while sill finishing. But later in the season it was about keeping them very under control.
Jan-Feb: 105-140 mpw
Mar-May: 100-110 mpw
Jun-Sep: 75 down to 50 mpw
It would be pretty cool if BK started training middle to long distance runners, especially since he would have a unique perspective on training, not only from training with Kenyans but also from just being trained by McDonald.
Some of the more popular theories for training 5k runners (like Daniels, for instance) are pretty interesting. The hardest work doesn't come at the end, but in the liminal time between base training and specific vo2 max/anaerobic threshold in late spring/early summer.
This is why so many dislike oregon/al sal/rupp. 1 medal in the last 3 championship events. While thats good thats certainly nothing to go on and on about. You guys make al sal seem like coach of the year. He's not! How about the guy who's coaching bekele, lagat or kiprop. How about some respect for those guys.
