Title Nine Sucks

I agree with you. I was also personally affected by it in a big way. But in all honesty nothing can be done aboput so there is no use in pouting about it. People just need to realize the difference between equality and compensation. we don't need the latter.

So who is getting compensation just equality that all.

That's the point. what we tend to do in this country is compensate.... Equality would have the best person geting the job or the scholarship or whatever, with EQUAL RIGHTS for all. But that's not the way it works. If you go back far enough in each of our histories, we've all been wronged. Hell as a half Slovac, Half Pole, I'm quite sure I've been shit on many times. What do I get for that? So there are two options. Compensate everybody, or wipe the slate clean and start over.

equality = compensation (?)

try reading something and educating yourself. you might start with spelling.

I can hear 16x coming down the tracks....

I personnally, have been profoundly helped by Title Nine. I am a 40 year old woman who started running in 1978 when I went out for my high school track team. At the time, there was no girls' cross country team at our school. I was part of my high school's first XC team the next fall which was started because of Title Nine. I was part of the first girls team our section ever sent to the NY State meet in cross country in 1978. (Prior to that our section had never sent girls to state). I earned a scholarship to a Division 1 University (Big Ten) just as schools started expanding their scholarship numbers to include more women. I doubt if I would have been able to go to college out of state without this scholarship. While in college, women's athletics was changed from being governed by the AIAW to NCAA, which finally allowed the same benefits (in terms of recruiting visits, travel, championship meets, etc.) as men. I participated in the first official Big Ten meet for women in track and cross country. None of this would have happened without Title Nine. The first women's Olympic marathon was not held until 1984,so there have been only 5 Olympic Trials EVER for women in the marathon. In 1984, there still was no 5000m or 10,000m for women at the Olympics. I believe they weren't added until 1988.

I know this seems like ages ago to most of you guys, but in reality, it is not that long ago. Women's sports are still in their infancy, and abandoning Title Nine and the good it can do for women's sports is not the way to go just yet. Young girls are finally, for the first time, growing up in a world where they are encouraged to participate in sports. The opportunities open to them are so much better. This is a very different situation from when I was little. I'm going to be running in the marathon trials in April (my second trials), and I know that there is no way that I would have been able to be in this situation without Title Nine.

D-R wrote:

equality = compensation (?)

try reading something and educating yourself. you might start with spelling.

I apologize profusely for leaving the t out of getting. I know that makes me a bad person and I do realize that you picking up on that qualifies you for genius status. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to take some time away from your Mensa meetings to enlighten us all again in the near future.

Title 9 sucks,

Hey my brother, here's a different point of view for you if you like:

Yes, you may be out because of Title IX, but your university is just using it as an excuse to cut a program to save money. More than likely something else at your school would have had to go that you might not have liked - Title IX just puts a big target on your sport.

My guess is that many sports would be cut at schools even without Title IX.

Ultimately I'm for Title IX - girls and women just didn't have the opportunity for athletics before, and I'm glad my daughter will have opportunities. Perhaps a better solution is out there, but I'd only support a different one as long as the women get equal opportunities.

I do feel for you brother, and you are certainly entitled to your disappointment. Can you go somewhere else and run?

Fly'n. I agree, you are an example of the benefits of Title Nine. And that is a good thing. I must disagree in one respect, I don't think adding the marathon, 5 and 10 had anything to do with title nine, as most Olympic member nations have no idea what it is. AS many cases of people benefitting from the act, I have seen first hand, just as many cases of peoples rights being abused because of it. It is really much more simple than we all make it out to be. That was my point. Treat others like you want to be treated, Equality/Equal opportunity for all...no robbing Peter to pay Paul and so on.

i think you're all getting mad at the wrong people. men's sports getting cut is not the fault of title IX. the problem is football, no school can maintain the proportionality aspect of title IX without cutting men's sports because they carry 100 guys for their football team. in addition if the institution says they're cutting your sport for financial reasons, that's bs too. maybe the football team should forget about that west-coast road trip they make every year or the head coach with a 1.5 mil/year contract. what did cutting the xc and track programs save the school maybe a couple 100k? how much would dropping football save? 10 million?

just look at boston university, they cut their football program a few years back and with those extra funds spread over the remaining sports they have had their most (overall) successful years (in their league).

so dont get mad at women, get mad at football and stupid A.D.s that would rather see the football team practice year round and travel all over the country in order to have a nice 4-6 season.

Fly'n,

I don't think anyone on this board would disagree with you that Title IX did great things for women's athletics. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that personally I believe that all athletes should get the same opportunities. This is where Title IX, and our court system, has gone out of control. The courts have chosen to selectively enforce this stipulation(have you ever heard of a school getting sued for their Band being out of compliance?). Title IX was never not written for athletics, but that has become its main focus. It has caused athletics to discriminate against all male athletes, save football players. With our current system men and women, especially in distance running, do NOT have the same opportunities. I applaud our schools for what they did in the late 70s and early 80s through Title IX, but it is time to rethink and make adjustments just as they did back then.

Title IX is the suck because NO ONE wants to watch womens sports except little girls. Womens sports is SO extremely boring that few people in their right minds would choose to watch them. If I had a choice between watching a WNBA game and watching paint dry, I'd choose the latter. exceptions: Womens track is different since its virtually the same... just slower. Womens tennis is okay, especially if they are hot... Maybe womens volleyball as well... if they are hot. WUSA soccer? out of business because no one cares and it is SOOOOO boring. WNBA? being supported by the mens league which isnt doing so hot themselves right now which means it will soon follow in the path of the WUSA.... unless they all of the sudden start getting hot players or something to regain attention. And you know what I hate the most??? When i am looking at the ticker on ESPN which is showing basketball scores and i have to wait like 3 mins for all the stupid college womens scores which NOBODY cares about go by before i can see the important guys scores. And common, guys you know I am right. I mean you will go watch your daughter play and support her, but admit it... It is boring as hell and you wish you had a son on the varsity boys team, ha.

I also would like to know why you think women are getting compensated for what I assume you mean past inequities. It is a given that women still get the short end on and money spent on women?s sports in general even with, at least in California, most of the universities are primarily women. Something as much a 60/40 ratio in some universities ,and that is being addressed but you can make people go to college. So where is this compensation?

The second thing is there a quality distance runner in the US that can not get a scholarship? It seems like it is the 15:30 5k guys who are whining the loudest.

And there is not a single basketball game in the world that is important womens or mens. That goes double for football.

This is not a Title IX or football issue so much as it is a barometer of track and cross country's health.

Look at the hard facts. Track / XC are not revenue producers. 60,000+ fans don't show up for track meets unless it is called "The Olympics". No one looks forward to tailgating at XC meets and the only fans of the sport are the participants themselves.

Next, the governing federation in this country, USATF, has a historically combative and adversarial relationship with the NCAA. Instead of lobbying for collegiate track or helping to finance it, USATF is more concerned with deflecting potential lawsuits brought by drug cheats and their lawyers. Consequently, they are not focused on saving the sport's feeder program.

If any blame is to be levied at the collegiate establishment, it can be directed at AD's and coaches. First, the AD probably doesn't know or care about track / XC as it does not garner a high profile compared to football and hoops nor does it inspire alumni to send checks. Secondly, most track coaches just roll over and send out resumes at the first sign of cuts. With a few exceptions, most haven't fought to save their programs or find outside financing. It's easier to surrender than fight the good fight.

Face facts. If the sport is to be saved in the U.S then it must become an athlete driven DIY program. Relying on the NCAA and USATF to "get it" is the surest path to oblivion. Stop blaming Title IX, women, Oprah Winfrey, Steve Spurrier, The Illuminati, and Africa for running's decline. Blame apathy, poor marketing, and runners who want a sport with no involvement other than racing. This is happening in Europe also and they don't have Title IX or the NCAA. The sport needs help.

I agree with the idea of title IX and its impact on women sports but I disagree with its impact on mens athletic programs. I have personally seen Division 1 womens teams give out scholarships to mediocre women athletes that NEVER practiced/ competed in the sport in highschool. When you compare that to your "run of the mill" 15:30 guy in high school, he has a tough time just making a team. Because of past circumstances such as these that I have personally experienced I think Title IX needs to get tossed or at least revised.

Ray thanks for clearifying my point early on in the thread. COuldn't agggrgrgeee with you more. anfd flagpole rock on. Oh yeah sadnsd who casres about spelling? is tireallty a sign of intelligence?

Old Man By the Sea wrote:

I can hear 16x coming down the tracks....

This tiresome topic is not worth responding to. When people have a "victim" mentality they don't want to look at facts. They want to cry for help.

Exactly, take Rutgers as an example, their footballers' weight room is being renovated so the equipment is installed in the 'bubble', (the indoor track training facility) and the track coach is told his team can't use the track because football needs it for their out of season training! Talk to many track coaches about the situation anbd they'll agree that football is out of control and that is the source of the problem.