Run a 3:30 marathon

My 5k times and training were pretty similar a few years back (and I was about 40) and I ran 3:15 on a very hilly course. My Number 1 piece of advice is to work on your diet and make those extra pounds disappear. The older you get and the longer the races get, the larger the handicap your weight is.

You have to run - on weekly basis - the length of a marathon at pace and faster.

That would include:

tempo run 6 mi (much faster than pace),

the last half of the long run (at pace)

long intervals if any (10 k pace) and/or

10 miles (at slightly sub-mara pace)

Eliminate junk miles except for a couple of recovery runs.

my 2c.

I am a similar runner (PR 3:09 in the last one I run, before it was 3:30).

I tell you what has worked for me, that is to say what I did diffrent last time :

- run at least once a week on very hilly courses (strenght)

- run 4-7 miles continuusly at LT instead of intervals at that pace

- run long with the last half close to MP

- run the recovery runs veeery sloowly

- train specifically for the marathon you're going to run

(in my case, focusing on altitude and steep uphill/downhill sections)

Hi Never Was,

For god\\\'s sake, you don\\\'t suck. Remember that.

One thing I\\\'d consider changing if I were you is the timing of your last long run. I\\\'ve coached a number of runners for marathons, and most of them felt best when their last long run was either 3 or 4 weeks before the marathon and then their last three weeks were 75%, 50% and 25% of their longest week.

Some people initially have trouble (mentally) with the low volume of training during the couple of weeks before the marathon, but if you\\\'ve done the training beforehand, a good taper is just leaving you well-rested and ready to run your marathon.

Let me know what you think.

First off, I would do about 6 runs of at least 20 miles. Your longest run should approach your goal marathon time... say 3 hours even. I would also make sure you do marathon pace runs... after a couple mile warmup, run 6-8 miles at goal marathon pace, then cooldown. Run this workout once every two weeks in your marathon specific buildup phase. I'd try to gradually increase the marathon pace portion until you reach 12 miles.

Good luck,

DougC

I've heard that advice before about running your last long run 3-4 weeks out, and you're right that mentally it seems hard to do that, but I'm willing to give it a try.

I think getting the 10 pounds off is a good thing too, and usually that actually does happen for me once marathon day rolls around. I wonder though what it would be like to have three months training at race weight before the race.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll probably incorporate most of it for the next one.

You don't suck...No matter what people on this board say. You are out there running some great mileage and obviously putting forth a lot of effort. The "slow" people who get criticized on this board are people who don't give any effort to what they are doing, so HAVE SOME CONFIDENCE in yourself! Also, I'm no coach, so I cannot tell you how to do it, but I would be willing to bet that you can go a lot faster than you think, probably 3:10 if you're interested in going to Boston. I know I haven't answered your question. I just thought you needed to hear this. Good luck.

-Matt

100 mile weeks will do the trick! Try it and see.

Good luck and train as hard and often as you can.

If you agree with race calculators (which are pretty accurate for the most part) punching in an 18:30 5K will show you a possible 3hrs 1min marathon with the right training so you definitely have the right talent to run well below 3:30.

People who want to get faster = Don't Suck.

Sorry, Never Was, but you really screwed the pooch on this self-assessment.

Don't be intimdated by the majority of posters on this board. Think about it, if everyone on this board was as good as they trash talk, the rest of the world would be finding ways to beat us on the track and roads.

Train harder and keep finding ways to improve.

Don't know if Never Was is still interested in this thread...

Here's some simple replies:

1. Your general day-to-day training is too fast and you have never developed any fuel efficiency (fat burning) hence you "bonk" at 15 miles.

2. As already pointed out, you should be capable of a sub-3hr time if that 18.30/5k ability is still current.

3. You can certainly manage a PR on 60-70mpw, IF DONE PROPERLY.

4. Those 10 lbs are not what is stopping you from doing it.

How do you choose/calculate your day basic endurance pace: go by how you feel, certain HR, pace of X mins/mile...

JEH, just trying to eliminate all the slamming from the get go. I know I'm not as fast as many of you here, and many of the posters here like to tell others that they suck, so I was just trying to nip it in the bud.

I do think I haven't been training properly. Perhaps a few more long runs in the buildup phase and perhaps I have been running too fast on "recovery" days.

Thanks Hadd. I think you've given me some good advice. I will take it.

For God's sake, he DOES suck. Always keep that in the back of your mind when you train. If you're "running" 60 miles a week, there is no reason to be running a marathon so slowly. None, zero, there can be no excuse about it.However, I suspect you aren't really "running" 60 miles a week. Cut your mileage and increase your pace (this defies most logic on this board). You need to master the basics. Run faster. Eventually, increase your distance once you're able to hold a fairly respectable (given your probable circumstances) pace. If your long run is say 20 at 8...then you need to scrap that crap. Cut your long run to 12 and run it at 7:20-30 pace. Do that a couple of times and then increase your long run to 14 at the same pace. After comforatble, increase to 16 at same pace...and so forth. Get the picture? Run faster and don't believe Greg when he says you don't suck. B/c quite frankly, you do.

Greg wrote:

Hi Never Was,

For god\'s sake, you don\'t suck. Remember that.

One thing I\'d consider changing if I were you is the timing of your last long run. I\'ve coached a number of runners for marathons, and most of them felt best when their last long run was either 3 or 4 weeks before the marathon and then their last three weeks were 75%, 50% and 25% of their longest week.

Some people initially have trouble (mentally) with the low volume of training during the couple of weeks before the marathon, but if you\'ve done the training beforehand, a good taper is just leaving you well-rested and ready to run your marathon.

Let me know what you think.

Wttbb,

I know I suck. I said so right from the beginning. Thanks for kicking a man when he's down. All I really needed was a way to get faster, but thanks for telling me what I already know; that I suck.

Not only do you suck, but you are also illiterate. However, hopelessly assuming that you just failed to read my post, I'll repost what I said (in way of advice). Maybe this time, you'll catch it."However, I suspect you aren't really "running" 60 miles a week. Cut your mileage and increase your pace (this defies most logic on this board). You need to master the basics. Run faster. Eventually, increase your distance once you're able to hold a fairly respectable (given your probable circumstances) pace. If your long run is say 20 at 8...then you need to scrap that crap. Cut your long run to 12 and run it at 7:20-30 pace. Do that a couple of times and then increase your long run to 14 at the same pace. After comfortable, increase to 16 at same pace...and so forth. Get the picture?"

Never Was wrote:

Wttbb,

I know I suck. I said so right from the beginning. Thanks for kicking a man when he's down. All I really needed was a way to get faster, but thanks for telling me what I already know; that I suck.

No, Never was, we've gone over this... you may not be the fastest of the bunch but you don't suck.

Anyone who wants to get faster = don't suck

You mean to tell me you're going to agree with wttbb over me... tsk tsk. Maybe you should ask wttbb to give his training regimen / times so that someone who "doesn't suck" can tell him that his first problem is that he just hasn't developed his speed yet, etc. etc.

Anyway, I figured your reasoning for the initial self-depreciating comments was just as you clarified.

I read that the first time. Didn't need the part about me sucking, because I know the 4:40 marathon times suck. Again, thanks for telling me what I already know and said.

we're at about the same level right now. lately i've been getting in about 35 miles per week (for about 9 months or so), and ran a recent 5K about 18:40. two weeks later ran a mar in 3:05. BUT ... i've got 20+ years of "base" behind me ...

each week i try to include ...

1 long run (at least 15 miles, usually more),

1-2 speed sessions. either track, hills, fartlek, steady tempo run, etc.

3-4 easy, steady run days (3-9 miles, depending on how much time i have)

i try to avoid scheduled off days because 1 or 2 (sometimes 3 or 4) days a week, work, family, etc. (life!!) will schedule them for me. if i race (even a 5k), i usually skip the long run that weekend.

the long run is the MOST important, speed sessions next. if you're trying to run a "serious" marathon, you'll have to get a LOT more aggressive than this, but if you just want to have a nice comfortable 3-3:15 marathon, you can do it by throwing in a long run EVERY week.