17 yo runner foregoing high school running

not bad at all....TOD!

Unconventional wrote:

The Question

What are your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Why?

I disagree with foregoing the high school competition.

You would also be foregoing the opportunity to compete at high school national events, which could be great for your career running if you end up having one.

Sure, go ahead and be coached by "your coach." I always made most of my own sessions in high school and that was a long time ago. The coach would ask what I wanted to do. Sometimes he would suggest something, like going to a certain invitational, which was good. I see no downside to competing your last year, as long as you can follow your own plans and ambitions.

If you don't compete your senior year then I think you will always miss having done it.

You sound like a jacka@@. Running isn't that difficult stay with the team and run doubles in the morning.

105 miles in high school?

train in quality, not in quantity

J.R. wrote:

I disagree with foregoing the high school competition.

You would also be foregoing the opportunity to compete at high school national events, which could be great for your career running if you end up having one.

Sure, go ahead and be coached by "your coach." I always made most of my own sessions in high school and that was a long time ago. The coach would ask what I wanted to do. Sometimes he would suggest something, like going to a certain invitational, which was good. I see no downside to competing your last year, as long as you can follow your own plans and ambitions.

If you don't compete your senior year then I think you will always miss having done it.

as long as he doesn't break amateur-status rules, he would still be able to compete in fln/nxn, boston indoor, nin/nsic, jr nats in cross, golden west, midwest distance gala, non, jr nats in track

plus college xc and track invitationals

i think the best situation would be to train under the new coach while still competing for the hs team, but i don't think most coaches would be ok with that kind of arrangement

Quantity is pretty important. Not sure it is 105mpw important for 99% of HS runners. I am guessing 70-80 given it sounds like he hasn't been working on building mileage for the past 3 years. There is a lot be said for peaking in HS. 4:10/9:00 as a senior gets you to all the cool races and some college scholarship money. The next year they might get you to your conference meet if your conference is weak.

jabroniii wrote:

105 miles in high school?

train in quality, not in quantity

This is what Alan Culpepper did and it worked ok for him...

This is what Alan Culpepper did and it worked ok for him...

This is what Alan Culpepper did and it worked ok for him...

Your 2-mile time is BS. There are no 1600m state champs with that PB in the Pacific Northwest.

Source: Athletic.net

Get out, troll.

I say go for it.

It is 100% sure that if you stay with your supposedly crappy HS coach that you will underachieve your dreams and always wonder "what if". Even if somehow your HS coach actually does a better job than your private coach would have done, you would always think it would have been the other way...so even if your high school coach gets you to 3:59 in the mile, you would think the private coach would have gotten you to 3:49. See where I'm going with this...

If you run for your private coach, you will always think you gave it all you had and you will be satisfied, even if you only improve a little. You have confidence in this coach and you see eye to eye regarding training philosophy so you are much more likely to be successful. You are a good enough runner to take a stab at this. I wish more people would get this idea that you have.

You already have a state championship so what more is there to do in HS? Footlocker, NON, etc...it sounds like you could probably get into those as an individual...I don't know.

I can tell you from my own experience that you don't want to look back as a former pretty good runner and wonder what would have happened if you had listened to your heart.

The last thing I'll say is if you ever start to develop a serious difference in direction with your private coach, you need to find someone new who sees eye to eye with you. If you don't have 100% faith in your coach, you will surely struggle.

Rereading your original thread I didn't realize you've been working with your offseason coach for several years. I had exactly the same situation as you except that my offseason coach managed to snag the HS track job from the XC coach because he was out for medical reasons. So I had a different guy for XC than for track. I would surely have done much better with the track coach year round.

But I eventually maximized my potential with the track coach at the weekly distances we were running (low 30s...imagine how bad the XC guy was for me to think the track guy was a genius!). Then I thought I needed more mileage and he held me back. I stopped believing in him 100% because I knew I needed more and the lack of confidence showed up in my performances. This is where I needed to find a new coach who shared my vision. I did not do that and regret it to this day...

I did not want to share my personal story but since your coaching situation is nearly identical to what I had I thought I would try to help...

Never run for a coach you don't believe in 100%.

Sure go for it......and enjoy running a limited amount ofmeets. And have fun paying for your own college education as well. There is more to being on a high school team than YOU winning....but you seem to be above all that. Your team will be happy you aren't there.

I don't understand this. He's in a situation he's not happy with, so he's going to change it. What's wrong with that? I think he'd be an idiot to stay in a set up that he dislikes. If he's getting bad coaching there then he should move on.

Dude,

Get a clue, this supposed new coach is an idiot if he thinks having a HS kid run 105 mpw is a good thing. You will have a spike in performance and think you are the next Rupp, then you will be hurt and begin a downward spiral.

Don't be a fool, training is not straining, you my friend are straining.

You are way too self absorbed. You should move to a different state. In California (or even states like Michigan), a 4:20 is nothing. Probably would not even make finals in California, probably would not crack top 8 in Michigan.

Be cool, stay in school. You will have fond memories of it in the future.

Unconventional,

I have given this topic a great deal of thought and want to share with you what I think.

First let me say that I agree with you that the current high school system is not set-up very well for athletes like yourself who are trying to move from the state level to the national level competition and eventually develop into professional level runners. High School tracka nd cross country often require weekly and even twice a week racing which is not how runners at your level develop the best. Additionally many high school coaches (but certainly not all of them) do not have the expertise to help a runner make the jump from the state to the national level.

But now let me say that this doesn't mean that you can't make the high school system work. There are definate advantages to the high school system as well, including organized and well recognized local, regional and in some cases national championships, the opportunity top race against your peers and opportunity to help and support your team and school (which helps in social peer groups as well).

Here are some steps you can take to make the system work for you.

1) Secure good coaching, capable of taking you to the next level. It looks like you feel you have done this. Now get the cross country and track coach at your school to by off on letting this guy coach you during the school season as well. Be diplomatic and be sure you stay a memeber of the team as much as possible. Enlist your outside coach to help by asking him to call your school coach if needed. Remain calm and well reasoned and make sure not to get emotional or confrontational but let him know you want to be part of the school team but want to progress to the next level as well. Make the school coach feel as much a part of your running as you can while still taking your direction from your outside coach (diplomacy)

2) Once the coaching question is agreed upon, its time to talk about racing schedule. Take this one season at a time. Make sure you school coach knows that its pretty common that top runners such as yourself don't race every week and in every meet your team runs in. Pick out 1-3 bigger invitationals during the XC season plus, conference, regionals, state and Foot Locker/Nike. Hopefully a couple of these you can win as a tempo run and won't have to race. Make sure your school coach knows you are looking forward to bringing the school another state title and maybe a national top finish.

Now if your schhol balks at this and refuses to allow any room for either or both of these you always have the option of not running that season for the school. there is no obligation to compete in a school sport. But don't close the door on the next season or future options. Again keep it unemotional and make sure everyone involved knows you are just trying to do what is best for your long term development. Avoid taking and small prize money in local road races or free shoes, etc from any running stores, as they jeapordize some future options you may be interested in down the road. You can still compete in things like Foot Locker or Nike XC and can probably get into a few invitaionals (either HS or Collegiate) by contacting the meet directors or having your outside coach contact them.

In short, try and make it work but if it can't work out then make sure you don;t jeapordize your future options for small dollar items.

Good luck and fast running.

You have to make your own decisions.

But since you've asked for other's opinions, here are my thoughts.

I personally think you are running way too many miles for a HS student. Where are you going to take it from here in the future? My son runs almost exactly the same times as you've posted off of about 35 to 40 miles a week. He just finished his sophomore year. His coach wants him to go to 50 this coming year and 60 his senior year. Maybe you can sustain this level but injury or burn out seems likely. College coaches we have talked to have always been interested in what sort of miles my son is running. They have been impressed with his relatively low mileage, I think because they know there is plenty left to work with.

Also, being part of a team and getting along with others is a pretty important part of life. You might consider just sitting down with your school coach and discussing things rather than going off on your own. Some of my son's best moments in sports have been as part of the relay team, even though he individually doesn't get much glory from it and it sometimes tires him out for his individual performances. Doing things for the team as opposed to just for oneself is also a pretty good quality to develop, in my opinion.

At some point in your life you are going to have to work and get along with people that you don't necessarily like or agree with. It's an important skill to develop. As several have pointed out, you can always run more miles on your own, right?

duck in the chicken wrote:

Your 2-mile time is BS. There are no 1600m state champs with that PB in the Pacific Northwest.

Source: Athletic.net

Get out, troll.