Torn between becoming a HS teacher or a college professor.

as one who has a significant other teaching math at the high school level, I would suggest you teach at college.

Unless you teach in a school district where the parents care about education, you will likely get frustrated by the kids who would rather text to each other than learn anything at all.

You are wrong about much.

You don't need a PHD to teach in college.

Many college professor's make less than public school teachers.

Public schools from rich areas with very involved often helicopter parents are often a nightmare.

College professors have more flexibility in their daily schedule.

I've taught public high school for 22 years. I've taught one class at a community college for about 15 semesters over several years. Choose college.

There are some subject areas where a master's degree can teach in community colleges although with the plethora of PhDs in some of those areas you might not get a job.

More and more colleges are using adjunct (part-time) staff to teach. At about $1500 per course per semester you ain't making a lot of money.

If you want to teach in college, aim for community college. At a university you are going to need to publish, conduct research and get grants. Community college instructors just teach (not that some might not do the others, but the expectation is much lower).

Weigh in that you can start teaching HS right out of college so you begin making money. Work on a master's degree along the way to get a pay bump. Whereas you will spend many years paying for the PhD and delaying your earnings.

Lastly, look at teaching at a private school. Pay tends to be lower, but you also may not need a teaching certificate. In most cases, the students will be more inclined to pay attention or at least the number of knuckleheads is lower.

This is a no brainer. Higher education. Find a job in a smaller town. Live the simple life and smother yourself in your field of learning, if you want. It appears you already do that, which I think is fantastic. Having a passion for something is enviable. Get married to a skinny girl who likes to run a little and go to the market. Live in a big house that doesn't cost a lot because you live in the country. Have kids, put them through college for free where you work at. Or maybe there is a good sister school somewhere they'd rather go to that still won't cost you a lot. Don't forget, most higher education schools have great athletic facilities that you can use for free. Stay fit, live long, and raise a good family.

You won't regret it.

If you taught science at a university you would likely have to publish research on a regular basis, I don't know how important that is to you. They're really pretty different professions

The wife is a college professor (humanities). My brother is a high school (history) teacher. I'll say the following:

1.) The politics of academia are brutal. I mean, I'm an attorney that frequently gets involved in actual political disputes (abortion funding cases, lobbying disputes, etc.), and I work reasonably often with and against elected politicians and cabinet-level appointees. The politics I encounter are NOTHING compared to what my wife has to deal with. Every decision breaks down to a bunch of diametrically-opposed interests just teeing off on each other. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

2.) The pay is similar between high school and college. The deal is, there's a wide variation in both fields. In academia, it's often without logic. The public school up the road might be paying $60k starting, compared to the comparable private school at $48k -- or vice versa. It just depends on what funding is available. The way the job market works in academia in most fields is that job applicants really have no leverage and generally take what is offered. I get the impression that there is a lot more predictability in high school -- rural districts make less, urban districts make more, non-unionized states make less, blue states make more.

3.) You work a LOT more in academia. Basically, teaching is probably going to be 15 hours a week when prep time is included. Administrative service is probably going to be another 15 hours a week. Then there's publishing. The wife has reasonable publishing requirements (roughly one legitimate peer-reviewed article a year), and she probably works another 20 hours a week on it. And the whole peer-reviewed thing sucks. If her experience is any guideline, roughly half of what you do is basically tossed in the trash because it is rejected.

4.) That said, it's a lot more flexible. You get off summers, a month over Christmas, a week over spring break, and probably a semester every four years or so. A lot of that is spent researching and writing, but it's still nice to have that flexibility. And every now and then you can take a huge block of time off.

5.) If you make tenure, you're set for life. And it's not that hard to make tenure. (Probably 50-50, and if you actually put in the work, I'd guess closer to 80-20 in your favor.)

6.) According to my brother, public high school kids suck.

7.) But he's having a blast coaching the soccer team. To me, it would almost be worth the pay cut and dealing with high school kids if I could find a nice XC team to coach.

Last, one thing to think about: The success rate on PhDs can't be more than 50% -- meaning only half of the grad students end up getting their terminal degree. And most of those that are there excelled in college. My wife went to an elite grad school with basically a bunch of college valedictorians, and a good 25% of them dropped out. It's not a question of intelligence or capability to do work -- it's just sometimes you get caught without a dissertation advisor to shepherd you through the process, and it's essentially impossible to finish at that point (because you need a faculty member to put your work on his/her colleague's desk and say "READ THIS NOW!"). So you aren't deciding between academia and high school -- it's between grad school (and maybe a 50% chance at academia) and high school.

a tenured position in academia is vastly superior to a high school teaching job, although the pay might be worse. The hours, the schedule, the intellectual challenge, the students, etc. will all be better. However, you cannot "choose" to be a professor. You can go to graduate school, get a Ph.D., work constantly for 5-10 years in the process, publish a great deal, teach a lot (at the adjunct level, starting with your master's degree), and still never get the tenure-track job. Only 29 percent of university and college teachers are on tenured or tenure track now, down from 40 percent ten years earlier. Jobs will typically have 200 applicants. Winners are usually those from the school with the best pedigree (grads of top 12 Gourmet Report schools generate 75% of profs at top fifty graduate schools in phil), or the candidate with the best-known advisor, and then gender vastly skews the equation. But don't forget that the interview trumps everything and so the high school popularity contest will decide the winners among those chosen for interviews.

As a lot of other people have pointed out, getting into a PhD program without having an appreciation of what you're getting into is a recipe for failure. There are jobs out there for people who primarily want to teach (liberal arts colleges), but your training will be no different from those who want to be professional researchers. That being said, teaching at a university is 100% better than teaching high school. If you're not sure about the research aspect, get an M.S. and be an adjunct or teach at a community college.

Just to clarify, when I said "tenure is easy," I meant once you have a tenure-track job. That's the hard part. If my wife's experience is any guide (and again, she was a grad student at an elite (top 3? definitely top 5) institution), 3/4 of the students get tenure-track jobs. BUT, a lot of those do so because of family connections (usually through the spouse, sometimes the parents) -- and a lot who don't do so voluntarily because they have non-TT jobs that they like. I'd say the success rate for those who went through the process "cold" is probably a little over 50%.

joe carter wrote:

As a lot of other people have pointed out, getting into a PhD program without having an appreciation of what you're getting into is a recipe for failure.

It's not a recipe for failure. It's a recipe for disappointment. The failure will come, more often than not, regardless of whether you know in advance how difficult it is. Just getting through the first year of graduate school is an achievement, as many drop out. Another half drop out during the dissertation process. And then as I said there are few TT jobs waiting for those graduates (of course, from the "top" schools (in many fields, there isn't going to be a dime's worth of difference between entering students at the top thirty schools, because graduate school admission is extremely competitive). Then maybe close to 50-70% hired on the TT make it to the tenure-decision point (there are yearly or bi-yearly reviews that weed some out), and then maybe 50-70% of those (quite a small percentage now of those entering graduate school) will have a job for life.

Along the way you may rack up the publications and they will say at the non-research institutions, s/he must not like to teach and wouldn't be happy here. And at research institutions, they may say, that person teaches a lot or that person publishes in too many areas and isn't a real specialist or we were looking for someone in x and they do x and y, etc. It's tough out there.

okay, wth? to a "skinny girl?" sarcastic "thanks" for bringing back unwanted stereotypes and societal standards. are you from the 1600s bc the last time I checked, women shouldnt have to be skinny for men. women love themselves for the way they are, and most men don't even like skinny girls. everyone has different tastes. and also, most of the time, you don't get to go to college for free just bc your parents work there

I'll preface this by saying that I'm almost finished with undergrad with plans to start a PhD program in the fall.

Do you have to decide this instant? No! but it is good to think about your future.

Do you want to do research and teach at the college level? Try to become a college professor. This will involve getting a PhD, doing a post-doc for a few years, and then trying to get a job at a university. None of these steps are trivial and in many fields tenure track positions are opening up less and less frequently because the old people just won't retire. Most professors I know are really happy with their jobs because they come with a lot of freedom (but also a lot of stress around the time grant proposals are due).

Do you want to teach college courses? You'll be going after 'instructor' positions. You would also want to go after a PhD but there are some positions that probably wouldn't require it.

I don't really know about teaching high school but most will require a masters in education and as you stated you'll have to deal with less-than-motivated students and likely more administrative stuff. If your really passionate about chemistry I think its important to note that you may be stuck teaching a biology class or a physics because a high school principal might look at your degree and just see 'science' and 'education'.

What should you do right now?

Get involved in research in a lab on campus and try to find an undergrad TA position. These should help you develop thoughts about which of the two you might prefer and if you actually like them. Additionally, if you work in a lab the professor that you work for would be a great resource for a question like yours. Maybe ask a high school teacher of yours, an instructor at your school, and a tenure track professor what their day-to-day is like.

Split the difference: teach AP students in high school.

You get highly motivated students... actually, that is all you need. It is awesome.

Consider this:

You can START teaching college and later move on down to community college or high school.

You most likely canNOT go the other way 'round.

Also, teaching in college makes you WAY more attractive to your local HS later on.

Have you ever even taught before? Just curious because some people think they like it but hate it after.

FYI : you can become an instructor (an instructor is different from a professor) in higher ed with just a MA. You tend to have a higher course load, and you obviously can't get tenure, but you don't have to publish. You'd teach the intro/req courses for your department. They are hard to get though, as most institutions use adjuncts for these. Being an adjunct sucks, trust me. You get low pay, and your course load will vary every semester. I know adjuncts who teach 10-14 courses at various institutions (you can only teach 3 a semester at each). However, if you work hard and get lucky, you might be able to get a full time position at one of those places.

Just something to think about.

tayw22 wrote:

okay, wth? to a "skinny girl?" sarcastic "thanks" for bringing back unwanted stereotypes and societal standards. are you from the 1600s bc the last time I checked, women shouldnt have to be skinny for men. women love themselves for the way they are, and most men don't even like skinny girls. everyone has different tastes. and also, most of the time, you don't get to go to college for free just bc your parents work there

Glad you caught that little nugget of grossness. LR is unfortunately a hotbed of misogyny (sometimes hidden, sometimes not). So much of it is sexual resentment to me.

tayw22 wrote:

okay, wth? to a "skinny girl?" sarcastic "thanks" for bringing back unwanted stereotypes and societal standards. are you from the 1600s bc the last time I checked, women shouldnt have to be skinny for men. women love themselves for the way they are, and most men don't even like skinny girls. everyone has different tastes. and also, most of the time, you don't get to go to college for free just bc your parents work there

Your opinion has been noted. Thanks for sharing. One thing is for sure, everyone has an opinion.

Hi-

I've been teaching HS for 14 years. I now have my own "pathway" (kinda like a mini college major). I teach three sections of fundamentals, 2 AP courses, and a capstone course. So in terms of HS teaching, I've got it pretty damn good. And only a 1 mile commute round trip to boot.

I recently interviewed and was offered a lecturer position at a college. They seem like very nice people, pay is about the same as what I'm making now, only 4 days a week, but the kicker is its a 90 mi round trip commute, about an hour each way, depending on traffic. I turned it down but the college said if I change my mind to get back in contact with them.

Now I'm second guessing myself that I should've taking the college job. I enjoy teaching HS but there are plenty of days where I find myself shaking my head at how futile teaching HS can be at times. Overall I have very good kids, who enjoy my classes, but teenagers are teenagers and naturally difficult on any given day.

I like the level of freedom teaching college seems to offer and the higher level of work with students who are into the subject but I couldnt bring myself to make the 90 mi commute. The commute was the reason I turned the job down. Minimum of two hours a day on the road or more depending on traffic conditions.

What do you guys think?