OK - let's try this again.
After reading the Jason Mayeroff RWOL article, I'm curious as to why the ability to consistently run high mileage is not considered talent?
As long distance runners, we train ourselves to run long distances as fast as possible. So why is it that in judging one's talent, runners usually just look at one factor in that equation - leg speed? I've always considered the ability to consistently log high mileage (approx 90-100M+ / week) as talent.
I agree that long distance running is a great blue collar sport that rewards patience & hard work, but not every runner can put in the big miles (even after years of training & building up) - it takes talent.
Not everyone can run a 4 minute mile, but everyone can
run 20 miles a day. All it takes is patience and willpower.
Sure anyone CAN run 20 miles a day but how many do, much less 10-12 miles a day? Even those who do are not running at a decent clip either. If it takes 4 hours for someone to do 20 miles when someone like myself does it in about 2 hours, we aren't your typical joggers like I would classify the 4 hour guy. Although I give him props for getting out there while others watch tv or eat all weekend. The ability to run long distance at a brisk pace is indeed a talent. Strength & Speed are two of the talents of running.
But can anyone run 20M a day (or other high mileage #s) AND run a 2:18 marathon? NO! I disagree that the vast, vast majority of runners simply lack patience and willpower, and that's why we don't have hundreds of thousands of sub 2:18 marathoners.
If 4 min mile speed is a talent, then the willpower, determination, and motivation to run long distances are also talents. Some people are born fast, some born more motivated then average. Some both.
More pressing than the "talents" of willpower, determination, and motivation to run long distances is the genetic predisposition of someone to be able to run 140 miles a week withOUT getting injured. Not everyone who would like to run 20 miles a day is able to do so and remain healthy.
the only thing that shows talent is how fast you can run off of less work. The only thing that running tons of miles shows is that you have better biomechanics or just a better body build that prevents injury, no talent involved there. Actually if you require more miles than someone else running the same times, you probably have less talent because you are working harder to do less.
"better biomechanics or just a better body build that prevents injury"
That's my whole point! A HUGE part of talent in long distance running is having great biomechanics & a great body type. Talent is typically considered to be based on genetics and what's more genetic than biomechanics & body type?
The structure of a runner IS the talent of a runner. That structure is made up of things like: biomechanics, frame type, bone density, muscle fiber type, larger or more efficient heart & lungs, etc. Some of these things can be manipulated through training, but most of it is genetic, and therefore it's all part of TALENT.
The vast majority of elite / sub-elite long distance runners are hard working people. The best of them are more patient than the rest. But they're all talented one way or another.
Running high mileage smooths out the glitches in your
biomechanics. Running high mileage alters the biochemistry
to run lower mileage weeks at faster paces with lower heart
rates and less metabolic byproducts.
High mileage talking creates no change.
BDG is right on, there are many talent factors as listed that go into elite running. Fred, surely you don't believe anyone on the planet who runs 20/day is magically going to end up sub-2:20, you're kidding right? Hmmm, how about Jesse Ventura, theoretically he did the 20mpd routine when he was a SEAL (according to the standard hype - I wouldn't know), but I don't recall seeing him or any others in the elite results. Bone structure/body type plays a huge role, and just as surely as huge mileage can help anyone improve their biomechanics dramatically, that does not automatically translate into elite/sub-elite times. There is a reason why so many Kenyans are elite runners, and so many Nebraskans are 300lb linemen.
fred, your logic is reasonable, but i disagree wholeheartedly with it. i would say that running high mileage serves to reinforce any glitches that are in your biomechanics. by glitches i'll assume you mean a block in the flow of one's energy. the blocks create the injuries and if they were released due to consistent high mileage we could expect that the seasoned high mileage runner would have no reason to get injured.
Im not saying that i disagree if talent is a factor, but i only ever heard this saying '99% perspiration,1%inspiration' so where is the talent? I know dna and genetical factors play important role but we seldom talked about it, cos deemed as taboo thing towards our running developement.
But one thing as a reflection:
My grandpa1 was a painter, grandpa2 and grandma2was a rubber taper, grandma1 was a housewife, my dad is a former taper now working in office and my mom is a carrer woman, so where is the athletic part? they didnt run,swim,cycle,they simply dont do sport.
I never believe 100% on genes, everyone has the same potential I think. Everyone capable of a record. I cant hide myself and say im 'slow because im an asian', what the hell is that? how did the koreans and japanese and the chinese run those amazing times? so i have no excuse on genes. If a jap can run 2:06, im sure so do anglo-americans and anglo-european can (besides kk).
only situation,condition,mutation that make the difference.
karangasem.
Just because your parents and grandparents weren't professional - or even casual - athletes does not mean they don't harbour some genetic ability. They may just not have had opportunity or desire to try. What do you mean you don't believe 100% on genes? Do you think a person could train to run as fast as a cheetah? I doubt it. What's the difference? Genes. Are there genetic variations in humans as well? Science seems to be pointing that way...
du-can,
but what yer doing now or when you were in your teen ager period affects what your child is gonna be. So is it now im doing double work here?(to excel and to break that limit?)
If you're pointing so, that can only mean one thing: if takahashi was born to be a morrocoan,or kenyan, she would have run under 2:15?
sevatonic wrote:
but what yer doing now or when you were in your teen ager period affects what your child is gonna be.
Wrong. You can't affect your genes unless you a) have some sort of weird surgery or b) absorb some radiation or something.
At least that's how I understand it.
Wrong again du-can.
You can.
Activity you do before reaching the peak of puberty (21-22yr) affects, it is true. The probability is as much as 85-90% to your future child.
I.e: you can develope diabetis by your own (by destroying your kidneys- or to consume as much sugar as you can till your body insulin can't accomodate anymore). If you develope dia before 21, then your future child will have lesser insulin than other normal children. It's proven.
karangasem.
Its not just patience and willpower. It does take talent to run 20 miles per day. A lot of people lack the ability to run over 100 miles per week. Many just break down and get injured around 80, so running 140 miles per week is out of the question for those people.
Sorry to digress from the main point of this thread, but Sevatonic is FOS on all counts. The "peak of puberty" occurs in the early teens, not 21-22. The genetic makeup of egg and sperm are determined by the random shuffling of genes that occurs at meiosis and cannot be influenced by personal habits. And you can't give yourself diabetes by destroying your kidneys or consuming too much sugar. Do a little reading, dude.
Sevatonic is FOS on all counts save one. You can give yourself diabetes by consuming too much sugar. That's adult-onset diabetes, and it's real.
However, there is absolutely nothing you can do to change the genetic potential of your children. Each of them will get 1/2 of your genes and 1/2 of your mate's genes. Unless yo do something drastic that actually alters your DNA (currently impossible - there's no genetic surgery), they'll come out the same no matter what activities you do. You can make your sperm less healthy in some ways (I think smoking pot is one of them), but diet and exercise have negligible effects at best on your offspring.