What negative effects occur when a 5k athlete returns from altitude? So for instance they adapt properly then train well at 6500ft for month then ease off before they come back down to sea level.
What would you expect to happen physiologically when doing training runs, workouts and races?
Also how long would you expect these changes, positive and negative to last?
I know every individual is different and everyone can respond different but just as a general idea.
Red blood cells last for roughly 120 days. So you should expect to see benifits from an increased hematocrit for 3-4 months. If it were me, and it will be at the end of this summer, then I would plan some solid workouts for two months after you return to the low elevation and then spend a month or so getting in as many quality races as you can to see if you can get some PRs. Good luck.
the changes allow you to kick up your training when you return to sea level, so don't buy the nonsense about the effects lasting only x amount of time.
no negative effects.
why would someone ease off before coming back down to sea level?
you would expect greater recovery, faster training runs, workouts and races.
let me help you with this wrote:
the changes allow you to kick up your training when you return to sea level, so don't buy the nonsense about the effects lasting only x amount of time.
.
Great, he can kick up his training. But, that doesn't change the physiological fact that the RBCs he gained from being at altitude will breakdown in about 120 days. This means that his hematocrit will revert back to what it was previous to going to elevation(this is not an overnight occurance, it will take time for you to notice the loss of blood cells). So the effects of his altitude WILL only last x amount of time. If you were right then I could go live on the top of Everest for a month and never need to train at elevation again.
i think he's saying that he would be able to maintain the boost in VO2max from the rbcs gained by increasing the intensity of his training, even when rbc count does return to normal. i don't know if this is true. Would you be able to maintain the increase in VO2max when the blood levels return to normal? Will the training effect last?
It may be possible to extend the length of time for which a person is at that peak by increasing intensity. But, ultimately the gains will be lost. Otherwise, why wouldn't someone just run higher intensity all the time and forget about altitude. It doesn't work that way. The only way to have persistant altitude effects is to live at altitude.
New to this game wrote:
Otherwise, why wouldn't someone just run higher intensity all the time and forget about altitude. It doesn't work that way. The only way to have persistant altitude effects is to live at altitude.
Shenanigans.
You would not increase perceived effort after altitude,
but instead you would be able to increase intensity at
the same effort. if you just increased intensity without
the previous benefit of altitude then effort would be
increased as well. I want a real answer from someone
who knows a little more behind it all. Would you be
able to maintain your training paces at the same effort
after blood levels returned to normal. Also, how much
time between trips to altitude would allow you to
respond to altitude, if you are in fact a "responder?"
New to this game wrote:
Red blood cells last for roughly 120 days. So you should expect to see benifits from an increased hematocrit for 3-4 months. If it were me, and it will be at the end of this summer, then I would plan some solid workouts for two months after you return to the low elevation and then spend a month or so getting in as many quality races as you can to see if you can get some PRs. Good luck.
However, the performance benefits disappear in around 4 weeks.
I found that while you're able to "easily" train at a higher intensity when you return to sea level, it is easy to get carried away with it and end up overtraining. So you might want to be careful and not forget to recover on your easy days (and not hammer those too because you feel so good, which you will!). Some advice is to train in layers at high altitude. Depending on when you go up and come back down, if you're coming back in Aug.-Oct. the higher humidity is going to have a negative impact on how you feel (if you don't prepare for it). Training in layers really does work-- just try a hat/long dri-fit/gloves or wear a jacket over a short-sleeve dri-fit. It's also a good idea to do a regular combo of strides (2x/wk)/short intervals/drills (2x/wk) while you're at high altitude, to help maintain some turnover. I agree with the guy who said the benefits last at least 4 months (I've still been dropping large chunks of time beyond that, so there might be something to the altitude "elevating" you to another level (intensity-wise?), despite RBC volume returning to normal).
Anyone experience negative effects?
I went to school in boulder and when i came home for the summer i felt like shit. I couldn't maintain pace, my breathing was VERY heavy, and my legs felt trashed.
Three weeks later when i returned to altitude i ran 10.5 miles at 6:45s, something i couldn't do while i was back at sea level.
Am i just a freak?
Again, a problem with going down to sea level is the higher humidity/heat. Training in layers at the higher altitude can ease the transition, along with proper hydration.
loser wrote:
Anyone experience negative effects?
I went to school in boulder and when i came home for the summer i felt like shit. I couldn't maintain pace, my breathing was VERY heavy, and my legs felt trashed.
Three weeks later when i returned to altitude i ran 10.5 miles at 6:45s, something i couldn't do while i was back at sea level.
Am i just a freak?
You were at SL for 3 weeks and felt like crap? Maybe it was the heat/humidity? Maybe it was being trashed from training and it coinciding with being at SL? Maybe you recovered enough that when you returned (potentially to cooler/drier weather as well).
loser wrote:
Anyone experience negative effects?
I went to school in boulder and when i came home for the summer i felt like shit. I couldn't maintain pace, my breathing was VERY heavy, and my legs felt trashed.
Three weeks later when i returned to altitude i ran 10.5 miles at 6:45s, something i couldn't do while i was back at sea level.
Am i just a freak?
How do you like Boulder? How supportive is it there?
Not easy to answer briefly, but a few considerations:
(1) Many sea-level runners use altitude to train for a specific championship and when that championship is over they usually back off training and of course they don't stay as fit, so they figure the benefit was short lived. (2) I have seen a few weeks at altitude result in considerable improvement in sea level performances, that continued for more than a year without return to altitude. In other words the individual got a performance boost from some time at altitude and that person was capable of improvement, but had not realized it earlier. (3) I have seen considerable performance improvements in the complete absense of any changes in blood values. People improve at sea level without seeing any blood changes Many other things to consider and there is no need to say there is any specific answer to what happens or what to expect, or why. (4) Often a runner leaves heat, humidity, college studies and final exams, plus heat and humidity, and a fight with a close friend; then goes to altitude for a month (with nothing to do but train, eat, sleep, have cool weather, good food and fun places to run), and upon return to sea level runs a couple Personal Best times -- man, that altitude is really the answer. It is definitley not just a matter of a few blood changes --
I certainly can't top Jacks' post but I think that you can't forget about the changes in the oxidative enzymes that help the hematocrit changes work!
In addition, you might want to check out some of the very recent research on altitude aapation done by the environmenal physioloists at Indiana Univ (incl. their former XC coach). In brief, their work proposed that a good portion of the increase in endurance performance after a return to sea level after altitude training could be linked to a short term increase in respiration rate.
so basically jtupper just told you to eat a dick.ahhhhhaaahaaa!
New to this game wrote:
let me help you with this wrote:the changes allow you to kick up your training when you return to sea level, so don't buy the nonsense about the effects lasting only x amount of time.
.
Great, he can kick up his training. But, that doesn't change the physiological fact that the RBCs he gained from being at altitude will breakdown in about 120 days. This means that his hematocrit will revert back to what it was previous to going to elevation(this is not an overnight occurance, it will take time for you to notice the loss of blood cells). So the effects of his altitude WILL only last x amount of time. If you were right then I could go live on the top of Everest for a month and never need to train at elevation again.
so basically jtupper just told you to eat a dick.ahhhhhaaahaaa!
New to this game wrote:
let me help you with this wrote:the changes allow you to kick up your training when you return to sea level, so don't buy the nonsense about the effects lasting only x amount of time.
.
Great, he can kick up his training. But, that doesn't change the physiological fact that the RBCs he gained from being at altitude will breakdown in about 120 days. This means that his hematocrit will revert back to what it was previous to going to elevation(this is not an overnight occurance, it will take time for you to notice the loss of blood cells). So the effects of his altitude WILL only last x amount of time. If you were right then I could go live on the top of Everest for a month and never need to train at elevation again.