Do the Africans really train harder?

simple answer...No.

Our best of the best, train just as hard as their best of the best.

Sometimes there athletes are able to do more without breaking down because of the large volume of running/or active lifestyle which provides them with a huge base on which to work with.

I never understood why most kenyans deny having superior talent and some westerners never admit to having inferior talent. Some "races" are better at different things, we all evolved in different ways. Just look at the african-americans in this country that are dominating sprinting over white guys, do you really think that the talent level of the top white sprinters and the top black sprinters are equal and that the blacks simply work harder, very doubtful. The same is true for distance running.

Africans...lazy? Naaaaaaw!

The logic of your argument is flawed. Chances are the runners who have managed to make it into the united states are incredibly talented and thus, even if lazy can still excel. Now the op's talent match is probably still in Kenya because since he wasn't as talented as the others, it wouldn't make sense for him to come here for athletics.

The reason why people point out that there is no (maybe very little) difference in natural talent is that creating this difference hurts the sport.it:

1) tells american (white) kids that they can never succeed causing them to not try (pushing our best talent to other sports) or mentally lose an edge.

2) takes away from the hard work of the african athletes

3) hurts the fan base, like it or not most americans are not keen on watching sports that we're not the best in.

4) but mostly because is a cop out. Its a sign of hubris to think that no one can possibly out work us (as a nation). Asian kids are kicking out asses in academia because they're naturally better, black kids are excelling at athletics because they're naturally better, that's just flawed.

I've never heard that collegiate-level Kenyans are particularly hard trainers, in fact, your experience seems more common. My feeling is that they pragmatically do just enough to maintain their obligations. At the collegiate level, their priority is probably getting the degree while doing just enough on the track to maintain their scholarship.

Meanwhile, the top-tier guys of the same age are likely back in Kenya/Europe training harder (maybe MUCH harder) in order to compete at the pro level, again for pragmatic reasons.

I suspect that the western concept of maximising one's running potential for it's own sake and to be the absolute best only occurs for the guys who have achieved a certain level of economic security (Geb, Tergat, et al).

This is my take on this :

No, they do not train harder. But, when they do train, a greater number of them hit training zones that are probably more optimal for better performance.

I once did an experiment where I did lactate testing on a group of Kenyan runners ; ranging from fair level (14:00 5k) down to sub 13. Then I did the same on Norwegian runners at a pretty high level.

The Kenyan runners seemed to hit right around the lactate threshold for much of their endurance training "naturally" - without a heart rate monitor or even a watch.

The Norwegian ones, however, were pretty much all over the place (with a very few exceptions) and with "natural" feeling at all.

But I have never through my 15 stays in Kenya found Kenyans running harder than the non-Kenyan runners I know.

Marius Bakken

Africans kick our ass because of genetic talent. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

Training harder is one of the poorest explanations I've heard. Training harder doesn't give you better fitness if you're already training at your optimum intensity and volume. Training harder usually just leads to overtraining, which makes you slower. I guarentee that at least 90% of elite distance runners in America train their asses to the limit. Training any harder would not be good.

Some people can train harder than others. It seems to me that in general Africans are capable of training harder than most Americans. This isn't a mental thing, it's an unchangeable physiological one. I know guys who can workout four times a week and feel great, while I perform best off of 2-3 medium-hard days a week. I know from experience that training harder just makes me slower.

Africans lazy? Yes and no. The Kenyans I've known have all been pretty "lazy." My friend tells me the three on his college team just go out and sit and talk on most of their runs, and this includes a guy who's been top 30 in D1 xc more than once. The kenyan I knew on my team would run VERY slow, probably 9:00 pace, and I saw him walking on more than one occasion. He was fast though. He told me that we trained TOO hard, and that the Kenyan way to train is to never train tired. Rest is key.

I'm sure the super elite Africans aren't lazy, but they're so damn naturally talented that they can afford to be somewhat lazy. I've heard Eliud Kipchoge was very hard working until he won the WC 5000 in 2003, then he got lazy, very lazy. Somehow he's still managed to be one of the best in the world though.

Like I say, the explanation is genetics. Are American blacks better b-ball players because they train harder than the whites? Sometimes, but how often have you heard of a superstar like Alan Iverson who barely does shit at all but still scores 40 points a game? It's pretty commmon really.

KUFI wrote:

4) but mostly because is a cop out. Its a sign of hubris to think that no one can possibly out work us (as a nation). Asian kids are kicking out asses in academia because they're naturally better, black kids are excelling at athletics because they're naturally better, that's just flawed.

only part of this is flawed. asians are not naturally better in science and math, and nobody seriously argues this. they go through extremely rigorous elementary though high school education programs that hammer them in these subjects. there is no serious evidence that they have higher IQs on the average.

on the other hand, africans are naturally better at sports. not just the east africans in running, but the west africans (like most african americans) in explosive sports.

there are just as many white kids or more playing basketball and football in america as black. but blacks dominate NCAA and pro ball.

when relatively small countries, like Kenya, are able to burst onto the world scene in a sport and consistently produce world-beating talent in a pure sport like distance running, you have to be a dumbass not to recognize that they have some natural talent pushing them ahead.

in conclusion, you are a dumbass.

You are absolutely right in that Africans don't train harder than Amercians. Perhaps Africans who have never lived and trained in the U.S. might take comfort in thinking Americans are lazy and that their success comes purely from hard work. This is a common misconception among guys like Tergat.

For a couple of years I have a chance train and socialize with a Kenyan enclave living in the Philly area. I would say these guys overall did train hard, but I was surprised when we would go on 10 mile run and practically jog the first couple of miles and if the temp got past the mid-80 they would skip the run. Kenyans seems to have a better feel for when they were optimaly fit and back on training, whereas Amercians by and large don't have the confidence or internal sense of their bodies to do that.

Guppy wrote:

Sometimes, but how often have you heard of a superstar like Alan Iverson who barely does shit at all but still scores 40 points a game? It's pretty commmon really.

That's a myth about Iverson. Trust me. I won't say what team I worked for at the time, but he actually worked out quite a bit. Once you reach a certain level, you don't have to work as hard to stay there.

The E. Africans have a higher percentage of talented individuals. You can't say some individual white can't run fast at the 5 or 10k, because undoubtedly some can. But the percentage of individuals with that talent will be smaller. It's the same with, say, weightlifting. There are few white guys in the NBA in comparison to blacks, but in the weight room, all the time we'd see that the whites were easily a lot stronger than the black guys, even the ripped, steroid using blacks (yes, there's some steroid abuse in the NBA, but it's not like baseball or football). It was interesting because sports reporters would ignore this and in fact deliberately report the opposite on occasion. Anyway, you can see the same thing in Olympic lifting or strongman contests. Very few black guys make the finals.

People of course go too far stereotyping, as you can bet there's more than one Jeremy Wariner, Tiger Woods or Craig Mottram out there. But they are the exceptions to the rule. Btw, please don't try and say that Tiger's case is one of opportunity, as there's been enough time by now, with the flood of blacks that jumped into golf since 1998 to have seen a large bump in the level of black talent in that sport. It's ruled by genetics as much as sprinting or weight lifting. I think whites and Asians are better suited to golf, on average, than blacks. I think it has to do with visuo-spatial processing. I could be way off, but it's a hunch. The racists out there will call me racist, because of course anyone can do anything, as long as they aren't white.

Marius: Good to see you posting. Hope your schooling is going well and that you can find time to rejoin the conversation. On the subject, all I have to go by is what I have read, which is a pretty broad mix of sources. My view is that some Kenyans train harder, but as Marius suggested, better or smarter.2 quick examples. Bob Kennedy reported that he thought he was pretty good doing 6-8 x800 in 2:08(?) and was dumbfounded to find Kenyans doing them in 2:00. But he adapted and then he too could do them in 2:00.2) Several reports have indicated that the leading Kenyans really do only eat sleep run. We North Americans tend to eat run work chase girls stay up late etc. These are differences in life style that are hard to change. Truly, not one of us ever had to run to save their lives or their families. The motivational difference is immeasurable. Interestingly, two who are known to only eat sleep run are Deena and Paula. It certainly works for them!

The top Kenyans end up running at camps (same for Ethiopians with the shady Hermens) where all they have to worry about is running. This is not the case for 99% of Westerners ages 15 - 21. There's a higher percentage of people with the genetic make-up like others stated, but it's also just the different situations. The Moroccans put up their top talent in training camps too. They aren't getting burned out by the American HS and College systems, never mind general Western apathy toward the sport.

This is going kind of off track from the orginal question, but I agree with you. We all have to be so damn politically correct nowadays that anyone who acknowledges differences between races is considered racist. Why is the NBA and NFL full of blacks? Why are the strongest men in the world usually northern and eastern European (I think that's right)? Why are Jews so good at chess compared to other races? Why are so many grad chem and grad physics students of middle eastern descent?

We acknowledge differences among men and women. Why can't we acknowledge difference among races?

I also must stress that these are general. Some women are fantastic at math just like some whites are great at b-ball, etc.

We can acknowledge racial differences but those differences do not (and usually are not)based on genetics. Cultural factors can explain all of those things.

Guppy wrote:

Africans kick our ass because of genetic talent. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

.

??

There are only an average of 8 genetic differences among all homo sapiens.

Culture is the difference between african runners and americans.

not false wrote:

There are only an average of 8 genetic differences among all homo sapiens.

Culture is the difference between african runners and americans.

as others have stated, if this cutsie argument were true, africa would not be a shithole where people hack each other with machetes after an election goes bad.

try again.

KUFI wrote:

We can acknowledge racial differences but those differences do not (and usually are not)based on genetics. Cultural factors can explain all of those things.

Wrong. Cultural differences play a part, sometimes a very large part, but saying there are no genetic differences among races is ignorant. Like I said, we all have to be so politically correct all the time that we have to act like everyone is the same. Everyone is not the same, and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

rolled up wrote:

as others have stated, if this cutsie argument were true, africa would not be a shithole where people hack each other with machetes after an election goes bad.

try again.

You sir, are a moron, a racist, and that has nothing to do with what I said. Culture as in many of the best African runners today grew up on farms, or being more active at a very young age. Thus when they begin hard training they are starting at a higher level. Running for them is also their ticket to money.

The best American runners were very active as young kids. I don't care about your argument enough to look them up though.