WOW, U.S. Steeple talent worse than it was 25 years ago.

Malmo's time from 25 years ago would STILL put him as the #2 US steepler in the US list for 2008. Yikes!

The list is Wrong Olinger ran 8:19 late in the summer

uhh....that hardly negates the correct observation of the OP.

Some of the 2nd tier 1500 and 5k runners should start steepling. They may make a name for themselves.

same observation would apply to any event >400

800 times - top times all posted at or before OTs...????

with a few exceptions, this was the case in every event.

Marathon - I can't remember when the depth was this weak. #3 is 2:13? Did everybody just decide to skip the marathon this year? 23 individuals under 2:20? Is this correct?

Whoa...an 8:32 puts you in the US top ten? In an Olympic year? Jeeeebus.

I'm one of the people who thought that Webb (assuming he didn't do triathlon, in which he'd kill everyone) should move to steeple. You don't have to be tall to be successful in the event, and he's certainly athletic enough to handle the barriers...

In a recent interview Solinsky mentioned trying the steeple in '09.

If you think that's bad, take a look at the men's marathon list for 2008. Looks like a year out of the 1990s.

24 males under 2:20 for the entire year.

2:06:17 Ryan Hall (Asics) London 04/13

2:11:59 Dathan Ritzenhein (Nike) Olympic G 08/24

2:12:33 ———Hall Olympic G 08/24

2:13:54 Justin Young (Reebok) Rotterdam 04/13

2:14:17 Abdi Abdirahman (Nike) New York 11/02

2:14:23 Josh Rohatinsky (Nike) New York 11/02

2:14:30 Jason Lehmkuhle (Saucony) New York 11/02

2:15:36 Matt Downin (New Balance) San Antonio 11/16

2:16:07 Brian Sell (Hansons) Olympic G 08/24

2:16:13’ Nicholas Arciniaga (Hansons) Boston 04/21

**10 performances by 9 performers**

2:16:20 Mike Reneau (Hansons) Chicago 10/12

(10)

2:16:32 Fernando Cabada (Reebok) Twin Cities 10/05

2:16:37 Bolota Asmerom (OTC) New York 11/02

2:17:35’ Christopher Raabe (DC) Grandma’s 06/21

2:17:38 Matt Gabrielson (Mn) Twin Cities 10/05

2:17:51’ Clint Verran (Hansons) Treviso 03/30

2:17:54 Edwardo Torres (Reebok) Twin Cities 10/05

2:17:58 Mike Morgan (Hansons) Twin Cities 10/05

2:18:26 Tommy Greenless (Ca) Detroit 10/19

2:18:38 Luke Humphrey (Hansons) New York 11/02

2:18:49 Chad Johnson (Hansons) London 04/13

(20)

2:19:18 Mike Sayenko (Wa) Twin Cities 10/05

’ Jason Schoener (Va) Boston 04/21

2:19:44 Sergio Reyes (AsicsA) Torreón 03/03

2:19:57 Trent Briney (Mi) Twin Cities 10/05

You're wrong. Olinger's 8:19 was in 2007.

The US steeple was bad, but the steeple overall in the world was also pretty bad depth-wise. some events go through down years before building up again.

In what way was the world list down?

8:00.57 Paul Kipsiele Koech KEN 10/11/1981 1 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:01.85 Paul Kipsiele Koech 1 New York City, NY 31/05/2008

8:04.26 Paul Kipsiele Koech 1 Zürich 29/08/2008

8:04.99 Paul Kipsiele Koech 1 Bruxelles 05/09/2008

8:05.35 Paul Kipsiele Koech 1 Stuttgart 14/09/2008

8:07.64 Richard Kipkemboi Mateelong KEN 14/10/1983 1 Doha 09/05/2008

8:08.53 Tareq Mubarak Taher BRN 1986 1 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:08.95 Mahiedine Mekhissi-Benabbad FRA 15/03/1985 2 Zürich 29/08/2008

8:09.05 Michael Kipyego KEN 02/10/1983 3 Zürich 29/08/2008

8:09.25 Ezekiel Kemboi KEN 25/05/1982 1 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 13/07/2008

8:09.93 Michael Kipyego 2 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:10.26 Brimin Kiprop Kipruto KEN 31/07/1985 2 Bruxelles 05/09/2008

8:10.34 Brimin Kiprop Kipruto 1 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:10.49 Mahiedine Mekhissi-Benabbad 2 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:11.01 Richard Kipkemboi Mateelong 3 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:11.10 Mustafa Mohamed SWE 01/03/1979 3 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:11.58 Tareq Mubarak Taher 2 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 13/07/2008

8:12.50 Simon Vroemen NED 11/05/1969 1 Cottbus 11/06/2008

8:12.72 Bouabdellah Tahri FRA 20/12/1978 4 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:13.00 Richard Kipkemboi Mateelong 1 Hengelo 24/05/2008

8:13.20 Hamid Ezzine MAR 05/10/1983 3 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 13/07/2008

8:13.47 Yacob Jarso ETH 05/02/1988 4 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:13.56 A Ezekiel Kemboi 1 Nairobi 05/07/2008

8:13.60 A Brimin Kiprop Kipruto 2 Nairobi 05/07/2008

8:13.87 Collins Kosgei KEN 04/08/1984 2 Doha 09/05/2008

8:13.89 A Richard Kipkemboi Mateelong 3 Nairobi 05/07/2008

8:13.98 A Paul Kipsiele Koech 4 Nairobi 05/07/2008

8:14.29 Benjamin Kiplagat UGA 04/03/1989 2 Hengelo 24/05/2008

8:14.32 Brahim Taleb MAR 16/02/1985 4 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 13/07/2008

8:14.35 Michael Kipyego 1 Stockholm 22/07/2008

8:14.52 Wesley Kiprotich KEN 01/08/1979 2 Stockholm 22/07/2008

8:14.68 Nahom Mesfin ETH 03/06/1989 1 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:14.74 Vincent Zouaoui Dandrieaux FRA 12/10/1980 5 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:14.77 Mustafa Mohamed 3 Stockholm 22/07/2008

8:14.79 Bouabdellah Tahri 5 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:14.87 Nahom Mesfin 1 Huelva 13/06/2008

8:14.87 Wesley Kiprotich 6 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:14.93 Wesley Kiprotich 4 Zürich 29/08/2008

8:15.23 Brimin Kiprop Kipruto 1 Rabat 14/06/2008

8:15.32 Tareq Mubarak Taher 3 Bruxelles 05/09/2008

8:15.32 Ezekiel Kemboi 2 Stuttgart 14/09/2008

8:15.58 Abdelkader Hachlaf MAR 03/08/1978 2 Rabat 14/06/2008

8:15.67 Brahim Taleb 3 Rabat 14/06/2008

8:15.68 Bouabdellah Tahri 4 Bruxelles 05/09/2008

8:15.71 Brimin Kiprop Kipruto 1 Roma 11/07/2008

8:15.74 Michael Kipyego 3 Doha 09/05/2008

8:15.80 Abubaker Ali Kamal QAT 08/11/1983 2 Huelva 13/06/2008

8:15.82 Bouabdellah Tahri 5 Zürich 29/08/2008

8:16.05 Richard Kipkemboi Mateelong 3 Stuttgart 14/09/2008

8:16.06 Benjamin Kiplagat 4 Doha 09/05/2008

8:16.27 Tareq Mubarak Taher 4 Stuttgart 14/09/2008

8:16.36 Reuben Kosgei KEN 02/08/1979 2 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:16.36 Youcef Abdi AUS 07/12/1977 6 Beijing (National Stadium) 18/08/2008

8:17.28 Jonathan Muia Ndiku KEN 18/09/1991 1 Bydgoszcz 13/07/2008

8:17.34 Anthony Famiglietti USA 08/11/1978 3h2 Beijing (National Stadium) 16/08/2008

8:17.37 Mohamed-Khaled Belabbas FRA 04/07/1981 6 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 13/07/2008

8:18.97 Ion Luchianov MDA 31/01/1981 7h2 Beijing (National Stadium) 16/08/2008

8:19.13 Patrick Kipkirui Langat KEN 16/06/1988 4 Roma 11/07/2008

8:19.81 Abraham Chirchir KEN 2 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:19.86 Ruben Ramolefi RSA 17/07/1978 1h3 Beijing (National Stadium) 16/08/2008

8:20.07 Rubén Palomeque ESP 14/08/1980 3 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:20.32 Krijn van Koolwijk BEL 30/08/1981 4 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:20.84 Daniel Huling USA 16/07/1983 6 Monaco 29/07/2008

8:20.85 Chakir Boujattaoui MAR 16/01/1983 2 Rabat 31/05/2008

8:21.13 Pieter Desmet BEL 07/06/1983 5 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:21.16 Ildar Minshin RUS 05/02/1985 1 Tula 06/07/2008

8:21.24 Boštjan Buc SLO 13/04/1980 8h2 Beijing (National Stadium) 16/08/2008

8:21.46 Kyle Alcorn USA 18/03/1985 6 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:21.47 William Nelson USA 11/09/1984 2 Eugene, OR 05/07/2008

8:21.73 Matteo Villani ITA 29/08/1982 8 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:21.99 Joshua McAdams USA 26/03/1980 3 Eugene, OR 05/07/2008

8:22.01 Abdelatif Chemlal MAR 11/01/1982 1 Castellón 07/06/2008

8:22.07 Roba Gary ETH 12/04/1982 1 Praha 16/06/2008

8:22.1 Elijah Chelimo KEN 1986 1 Brazzaville 01/06/2008

8:22.16 Jamel Chatbi MAR 30/04/1984 3 Rabat 31/05/2008

8:22.20 Tomasz Szymkowiak POL 05/07/1983 3 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:22.2 A Willy Rutto Komen KEN 22/12/1987 3 Nairobi 19/04/2008

8:22.35 Jukka Keskisalo FIN 27/03/1981 6 Roma 11/07/2008

8:22.95 Andrew Lemoncello GBR 12/10/1982 8 Paris Saint-Denis 18/07/2008

8:23.19 Eliseo Martín ESP 05/11/1973 5h3 Beijing (National Stadium) 16/08/2008

8:23.28 José Luis Blanco ESP 03/06/1975 3 Huelva 13/06/2008

8:23.66 Stuart Stokes GBR 05/12/1976 4 Praha 16/06/2008

8:24.04 Pavel Potapovich RUS 26/11/1980 1 Moskva 10/06/2008

8:24.14 Itai Maggidi ISR 09/01/1981 1 Longeville-lès-Metz 04/07/2008

8:24.19 David Lagat KEN 1980 5 Praha 16/06/2008

8:24.2 Alberto Paulo POR 03/10/1985 2 Ribeira Brava 23/07/2008

8:24.30 Roman Usov RUS 04/06/1978 2 Tula 06/07/2008

8:24.7 Abrham Kebeto ETH 1986 3 Brazzaville 01/06/2008

8:25.09 David Biwott Chemweno KEN 18/12/1981 2 Metz 04/07/2008

8:25.12 Hicham Sadouk MAR 4 Rabat 31/05/2008

8:25.14 Patrick Kipyegon Terer KEN 06/07/1989 3 Bydgoszcz 13/07/2008

8:25.28 Andrey Farnosov RUS 09/07/1980 3 Metz 04/07/2008

8:25.41 Zakrya Ali Kamil QAT 25/03/1988 2 Tanger 13/07/2008

8:25.71 Thamer Kamal Ali QAT 12/11/1988 7 Hengelo 24/05/2008

8:25.90 Marcin Chabowski POL 28/05/1986 2 Szczecin 06/07/2008

8:26.13 Irba Lakhal FRA 12/12/1975 4 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:26.25 Antonio David Jiménez ESP 18/02/1977 9 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:26.58 Bjørnar Ustad Kristensen NOR 26/01/1982 5 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:26.66 Filmon Ghirmai GER 25/01/1979 10 Heusden-Zolder 20/07/2008

8:26.91 Rabia Makhloufi ALG 11/11/1986 9 Roma 11/07/2008

8:27.00 Martin Dent AUS 08/02/1979 1 Sydney 16/02/2008

8:27.06 Julius Nyamu KEN 01/12/1977 2 Belém 25/05/2008

8:27.06 Peter Nowill AUS 15/06/1979 8 Rabat 14/06/2008

8:27.53 Jilali Ismaili MAR 5 Rabat 31/05/2008

8:27.56 Abdelghani Aït Bahmad MAR 28/07/1989 6 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:27.67 Dereje Abdi ETH 15/09/1989 7 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:27.78 Corey Nowitzke USA 26/04/1984 4h1 Eugene, OR 03/07/2008

8:28.21 Steve Slattery USA 14/08/1980 2 New York City, NY 31/05/2008

8:28.30 Martin Pröll AUT 21/03/1981 9 Praha 16/06/2008

8:28.48 Luke Gunn GBR 22/03/1985 3 Solihull 28/06/2008

8:28.5 Mário Teixeira POR 20/09/1974 3 Ribeira Brava 23/07/2008

8:28.90 Yuri Floriani ITA 25/12/1981 11 Roma 11/07/2008

8:29.0 A Linus Chumba KEN 09/02/1980 1 Nairobi 24/05/2008

8:29.02 Simon Ayeko UGA 10/05/1987 2r1 Pézenas 31/05/2008

8:29.21 A Abraham Cherono KEN 21/07/1980 3 Nairobi 28/06/2008

8:29.40 Solomon Kandie KEN 28/08/1978 3 New York City, NY 31/05/2008

8:29.46 Lukasz Parszczynski POL 04/05/1985 3 Bydgoszcz 01/07/2008

8:29.52 Adam Bowden GBR 05/08/1982 4 Solihull 28/06/2008

8:29.75 Yoshitaka Iwamizu JPN 20/06/1979 1 Kawasaki 29/06/2008

8:29.84 Caleb Ngetich KEN 20/01/1981 1 Barcelona (S) 01/06/2008

8:30.0 A Peter Kimeli Lagat KEN 22/04/1989 6 Nairobi 19/04/2008

8:30.02 Vadym Slobodenyuk UKR 17/03/1981 1 Kedzierzyn-Kozle 06/06/2008

8:30.17 David Kirwa KEN 01/08/1985 2 Bilbao 21/06/2008

8:30.19 Jake Morse USA 07/04/1985 5 New York City, NY 31/05/2008

8:30.39 Legese Lamiso ETH 13/01/1990 3 Cottbus 11/06/2008

8:30.49 Ángel Mullera ESP 20/04/1984 5 Barakaldo 11/07/2008

8:30.63 Rafal Snochowski POL 31/10/1983 3 Szczecin 06/07/2008

8:30.73 Radoslaw Poplawski POL 16/01/1983 2 Kedzierzyn-Kozle 06/06/2008

8:30.99 Mustapha Ferrane ALG 6 Tanger 13/07/2008

8:31.23 Halil Akkas TUR 01/07/1983 1 Izmir 05/06/2008

8:31.70 Valerijs Žolnerovics LAT 19/04/1985 6 Barakaldo 11/07/2008

8:32.12 Anderson Smith USA 01/04/1982 2r1 Palo Alto, CA 04/05/2008

8:32.17 Mario Bazán PER 01/09/1987 7 Barakaldo 11/07/2008

8:32.2 A Silas Kosgei Kitum KEN 25/05/1990 3 Nairobi 18/06/2008

8:32.27 David Cheromei KEN 1985 10 Praha 16/06/2008

8:32.40 Andrey Olshanskiy RUS 15/06/1978 4 Moskva 10/06/2008

8:32.47 Jacques Sallberg USA 24/09/1974 7 New York City, NY 31/05/2008

8:32.57 Ben Bruce USA 10/09/1982 1h2 Eugene, OR 03/07/2008

8:32.65 Brian Olinger USA 02/06/1983 1r1 Columbus, OH 02/05/2008

8:32.77 James Kiplagat Kosgei KEN 1984 8 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:33.09 Per Jacobsen SWE 30/12/1977 11 Praha 16/06/2008

8:33.1 A Collins Ngeno KEN 14/04/1983 7 Nairobi 19/04/2008

8:33.42 Peter Kosgei KEN 03/02/1983 1r2 Fayetteville, AR 31/05/2008

8:33.62 Bisluke Kipkorir Kiplagat KEN 08/08/1988 10 Bydgoszcz 01/07/2008

8:33.93 Henrik Skoog SWE 17/04/1979 12 Praha 16/06/2008

8:34.13 Yousif Idriss Musa SUD 17/06/1988 8 Tanger 13/07/2008

8:34.42 Steffen Uliczka GER 17/07/1984 7 Cottbus 11/06/2008

8:34.6 A Patrick Nthiwa KEN 30/06/1883 4 Nairobi 24/05/2008

8:34.61 Alex Genest CAN 30/06/1986 5r1 Palo Alto, CA 04/05/2008

8:34.66 Yoann Kowal FRA 28/05/1987 3r1 Pézenas 31/05/2008

8:34.74 Jordan Desilets USA 05/12/1980 3h2 Eugene, OR 03/07/2008

8:34.75 László Tóth HUN 15/09/1987 5 Velenje 26/06/2008

8:34.82 Francisco Javier Lara ESP 24/06/1976 4 Barcelona (S) 01/06/2008

8:34.84 Michael Spence USA 20/05/1978 5h2 Eugene, OR 03/07/2008

8:35.36 Augustus Maiyo KEN 10/05/1983 6r1 Palo Alto, CA 04/05/2008

8:35.41 Wenli Sun CHN 09/02/1978 1 Shijiazhuang 12/10/2008

8:35.47 Abdelhakim Maazouz ALG 28/08/1975 1 Alger 03/07/2008

8:35.62 Omar Awadh Al-Rashidi KUW 10/11/1984 2 Alger 29/05/2008

8:35.73 Petr Ivanenko RUS 11/01/1986 5 Moskva 10/06/2008

8:35.77 Gladson Barbosa BRA 16/08/1979 10 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:35.89 Xiangqian Lin CHN 27/01/1987 1r1 Hangzhou 12/01/2008

8:36.00 Abraham Kiprotich KEN 17/08/1985 4r1 Pézenas 31/05/2008

8:36.2 A Stephen Kiprotich UGA 27/02/1989 4 Nairobi 18/06/2008

8:36.43 Nikolay Spirkin RUS 08/01/1986 4 Tula 06/07/2008

8:36.50 A Jackson Mutiso KEN 1992 5 Nairobi 28/06/2008

8:36.69 Jordan Fife USA 18/08/1983 2r2 Walnut, CA 18/04/2008

8:36.84 Hillary Bor KEN 22/11/1989 4 Des Moines, IA 13/06/2008

8:36.96 Hiroyoshi Umegae JPN 05/01/1984 2 Kawasaki 29/06/2008

8:37.17 Moustafa Ahmed Shebto QAT 04/07/1986 7 Doha 09/05/2008

8:37.21 Luke Watson USA 20/08/1980 3r2 Walnut, CA 18/04/2008

8:37.53 Mateusz Demczyszak POL 18/01/1986 4 Szczecin 06/07/2008

8:37.6 José Alberto Sánchez CUB 02/09/1986 1 Santa Clara, CUB 19/06/2008

8:37.69 Frank Tickner GBR 12/10/1983 15 Praha 16/06/2008

8:38.03 Kyle Heath USA 24/08/1986 6 Des Moines, IA 13/06/2008

8:38.09 Firkre Werkne ETH 11 Neerpelt 31/05/2008

8:38.10 Vincent Le Dauphin FRA 28/06/1976 8 Metz 04/07/2008

8:38.13 Enrique Sánchez ESP 14/10/1983 7 Barcelona (S) 01/06/2008

8:38.19 Lyle Weese USA 26/10/7980 1r2 Palo Alto, CA 04/05/2008

8:38.25 Vitaliy Nevyantsev RUS 08/09/1983 6 Kazan 18/07/2008

8:38.44 Le Yang CHN 09/04/1987 3 Shijiazhuang 12/10/2008

8:38.48 Patrick Mutai KEN 31/12/1983 7 Des Moines, IA 13/06/2008

8:38.59 Tshamano Setone RSA 07/05/1987 2 Durban 08/02/2008

8:38.63 Tom Brooks USA 10/01/1978 7h2 Eugene, OR 03/07/2008

8:38.72 Emmanuel Mkhabela RSA 19/07/1979 3 Durban 08/02/2008

8:38.72 Rob Watson CAN 1983 5r2 Walnut, CA 18/04/2008

8:38.72 Max King USA 24/02/1980 1 Eugene, OR 25/04/2008

8:38.88 Lucas Meyer USA 01/08/1983 12r1 Palo Alto, CA 04/05/2008

8:39.02 Zouhair Ouerdi MAR 15/02/1977 3 Rennes 11/06/2008

8:39.17 Linzhong Shi CHN 16/01/1981 1 Zhaoqing 09/11/2008

8:39.18 Aoi Matsumoto JPN 1987 2 Oita 03/10/2008

8:39.19 Frédéric Denis FRA 03/03/1975 4 Strasbourg 02/07/2008

8:39.21 Mike Nicks USA 13/09/1981 2 Eugene, OR 25/04/2008

8:39.42 Tom Kloos USA 1978 1 Eugene, OR 15/06/2008

8:39.5 A Ben Siwa UGA 27/05/1989 2 Kampala 26/07/2008

8:39.76 Mariusz Gizynski POL 26/06/1981 9 Cottbus 11/06/2008

compare it to previous years like the original poster did instead of cutting and pasting stuff without using your brain to reason about things. this isn't rocket science. Here's a start: only one guy under 8:06?? - that's DOWN.

Who lets the dogs out?? wrote:

Some of the 2nd tier 1500 and 5k runners should start steepling. They may make a name for themselves.

that's exactly why they haven't switched to the steeple. you don't make a name for yourself running 8:20 unless 'making a name for yourself' includes some letsrun nerds talking about you... ala brian olinger (no offense to him)

Good intereview with Olinger in the last week, He has a good reason why US times are so down:

http://dailynews.runnersworld.com/2008/12/a-brief-chat--5.html

The interviewer, Peter Gambaccini, is consistently awful.

Look for Fam to move on to 10k, and then you have 6 guys, all with PRs under 8:22 for 3 spots for Worlds team.

Alcorn, McAdams, Slatts, Nelson, Huling, and Olinger. That is as much depth as the event has ever had in this country. If Lincoln returns and Fam stays, its our deepest, best event.

Not to go off on a tangent, but look at this comment at the bottom of that runnersworld article

Why don't you make me athlete of the year? I'm only 15 years old. And i already ran my first marathon this year. I'm sure that any of these athletes did not run a marathon at the age of 15! If not me i would pick Haile Gebrselassie. That dude is a tank!

Posted by: Robert Gibbs | Dec 23, 2008 10:20:43 PM

I lol'd

US runners have been left behind by the (mostly) African runners, years ago. You need to be under 8:10 these days, to even be a factor.