The difference between all-time men's and women's is about 13 minutes...but you see many more men's times in the 2:06-2:07 range than you do in the women's 2:19-2:20 range. Why are the women not responding as they should?
The difference between all-time men's and women's is about 13 minutes...but you see many more men's times in the 2:06-2:07 range than you do in the women's 2:19-2:20 range. Why are the women not responding as they should?
Perhaps it might have something to do w/the hundreds upon hundreds of years women weren't allowed to participate in sports and they've only had about the past 35 years to catch up?
seems they caught up in sprints and other events
Physiologically the ATP-PCr system is equal (relatively) for men and women.
Side Burnzzzz wrote:
Physiologically the ATP-PCr system is equal (relatively) for men and women.
But what if the bitch owns a Mac?
Pac Ten guy wrote:
seems they caught up in sprints and other events
First Olympic Champion in the Women's 100m--Betty Robinson, USA (1928)
First Olympic Champion in the Women's marathon--Joan Benoit-Samuelson, USA (1984)
There's a bit of a time lag, there; women were allowed to compete in the sprints, despite some controversy, long before they were allowed to compete in distance events.
Did you know that if a woman tries to run more than 3000m her heart will explode?
Not An Expert wrote:
Did you know that if a woman tries to run more than 3000m her heart will explode?
Oooooh... that explains the noise I keep hearing every time I run past 3000 meters! I wondered what that was about. Should I call 911 or is an exploding heart nothing too serious?
Just a quick check on mercier scoring tables may help keep you in check. These table are done through years and years of comparisons so a single WR comparison is useless.
2:11:00 male is the same as a 2:31:22 female.
Most males have a tough time grasping what they would be as a female. I am not saying that you are one of these males. Your responses usually tell us this.
so you are saying wonderboy ritz's performance is equal to 232 female - that is great! i believed that all along, now i have confirmation.
Exactly.
FACT
Brian Sell and Ritz have not run as fast as Blake Russell or Magdalena Lewy.
That is just tough for a male doninated board to deal with.
scotth wrote:
Perhaps it might have something to do w/the hundreds upon hundreds of years women weren't allowed to participate in sports and they've only had about the past 35 years to catch up?
Elite marathoners train 10-20 years before hitting their peak. World history prior to someone beginning her running career is irrelevant to that individual.
Not An Expert wrote:
Did you know that if a woman tries to run more than 3000m her heart will explode?
So, after 800M the uterus will fall out and 3000M the heart explodes. You'd think the women's 5K and 10K would get more TV time.
Blowing Rock Master wrote:
Elite marathoners train 10-20 years before hitting their peak. World history prior to someone beginning her running career is irrelevant to that individual.
Friend, what you fail to take into account is those elite female marathoners that take 10-20 years to hit their peak are drawn from a significantly smaller pool of potential stars than the men. The men have had far longer to be assimilated into the sport and, by degrees, don't have to deal w/the cultural, political & religious roadblocks women around the globe must overcome before they take even their first running steps.
Even now in the US, women elect not to continue past school years at a rate probably twice as great as men. And this, in a progressive country. Ask yourself- why is the NCAA women's cross-country national championship distance 6 km? Because there simply aren't enough women to make it competitive over a longer distance currently. There is a yawning gap between the best women in the country and those who rank 50 places back over 10,000m.
Can the women run 10,000m? Of course, but if you line the best 50 up, the disparity in their times would be way out of whack compared to the men.
Slight correctionFact:Brian Sell and Ritz have run almost 20 mins faster than Blake Russell or Magdalena Lewy.Fact:According to Mercier tables, Brian Sell and Ritz have not performances as good as Blake Russell or Magdalena Lewy.Fact:A lot of people question the assumptions behind the Mercier tables. There was some nut job in the mid 80s who was claiming that woman would run faster than men by around 2020 in almost all of the track events. This genius came to this conclusion by looking at the rate of improvement of men versus woman for the last 75 or so years and extrapolating. Turns out that assumption broke down when drug testing got a little more serious.I also like the gal who though woman were slower than men because they were shorter. Her theory was stride rate was about the same but since men were ~8% faster and taller, that was the reason.The point. You can make statistics up to prove any point. Use your brain.
Do Not Bother wrote:
Exactly.
FACT
Brian Sell and Ritz have not run as fast as Blake Russell or Magdalena Lewy.
That is just tough for a male doninated board to deal with.
You're talking about groups, I'm talking about individuals. In the west society stopped frowning upon women athletes by the 80's. Women runners from these countries haven't had societal barriers to overcome in over 20 years. More than long enough to develop a marathoner. If a woman decides to quit after college it's for personal reasons not historical.
In many African, Arab, and Asian countries modern society tells them they can't compete in sports. It wouldn't matter if women had been eligible to run the marathon in every Olympics since the beginning, the societal (mostly Islamic influence) barrier would still exist because women don't have equal rights in these countries. Despite this, there are still individuals from these areas who buck the current system. If Catherine Ndereba, Gete Wami, or Berhane Adere haven't run 2:15 it's not because of history, it's because they can't (at least not yet).
Do Not Bother wrote:
Just a quick check on mercier scoring tables may help keep you in check. These table are done through years and years of comparisons so a single WR comparison is useless.
2:11:00 male is the same as a 2:31:22 female.
Most males have a tough time grasping what they would be as a female. I am not saying that you are one of these males. Your responses usually tell us this.
I agree that you can not go off of the world record to compare times, but the mercier tables are clearly crap if they come up with 2:11=2:31:22. Not speaking as a guy, just as someone who realizes that someone who finishes within a 7 minutes of the world record is more cometitive then someone who finishes 16 minutes behind. It makes more sense to compare the hundredth fastest times to each other or the two hundredth.
The 1000th fastest time ever for a man is 2:09:26
The 1000th fastest time ever for a woman is 2:28:46
However, women have not been running at as high a level as long as the men have and so have less depth. That is why the one or two stand out athletes (mainly Paula) mess everything up.
I think that the best measure of a time is competitiveness at the current moment. To have a chance of winning a major race in the marathon for a male, you need to be in 2:06-2:07 shape. A woman to reach the same standard would need to run around 2:20-2:21. I think 1.11 or 1.12 is a good multiplier to convert mens times into female times...it makes Haile's wr run out to be worth around 2:17:40-2:08:30. In fact 11-12% works for just about all running events from sprinting to the marathon.
2:11 is worth about 2:25-2:26, not 2:31
Do Not Bother wrote:
2:11:00 male is the same as a 2:31:22 female.
completely false. and if you believe this, you're just dumb.
To be honest, since the "modern era" of women's marathoning began with Grete Waitz's first world record victory in New York City in 1978, Joan Benoit Samuelson, Deena Kastor, Kim Jones, Julie Brown (very briefly), Patti Catalano, and Kara Goucher (only one so far) are the only really "elite" marathoners the U.S. has produced. You could add Colleen De Reuck, but we didn't really "produce" her. It's not a very long list. i may have left out one person but... I don't think so.
How many men would be on your list? Since you are requiring a sub 2:30, it is safe to assume you are pretty much only looking at sub 2:09 guys and there are not a whole lot (assuming if you drop all the aided boston times). I have a list of 3: KK, Hall, Abdi. Throw in Meb, Spence, Plajitas for WC/Olympic medals and Salazar/Rodger for NYC/Boston victories and it isn't a big list. I would say that is a bit too exclusive definition of elite.
Not That Many wrote:
To be honest, since the "modern era" of women's marathoning began with Grete Waitz's first world record victory in New York City in 1978, Joan Benoit Samuelson, Deena Kastor, Kim Jones, Julie Brown (very briefly), Patti Catalano, and Kara Goucher (only one so far) are the only really "elite" marathoners the U.S. has produced. You could add Colleen De Reuck, but we didn't really "produce" her. It's not a very long list. i may have left out one person but... I don't think so.
OR wrote:
How many men would be on your list? Since you are requiring a sub 2:30, it is safe to assume you are pretty much only looking at sub 2:09 guys and there are not a whole lot (assuming if you drop all the aided boston times). I have a list of 3: KK, Hall, Abdi. Throw in Meb, Spence, Plajitas for WC/Olympic medals and Salazar/Rodger for NYC/Boston victories and it isn't a big list. I would say that is a bit too exclusive definition of elite.
Not That Many wrote:To be honest, since the "modern era" of women's marathoning began with Grete Waitz's first world record victory in New York City in 1978, Joan Benoit Samuelson, Deena Kastor, Kim Jones, Julie Brown (very briefly), Patti Catalano, and Kara Goucher (only one so far) are the only really "elite" marathoners the U.S. has produced. You could add Colleen De Reuck, but we didn't really "produce" her. It's not a very long list. i may have left out one person but... I don't think so.
2:30=~2:12-2:13
don't be sucked into this Mercier tabe bullshit