How many 1k repeats at 5k race pace, with a 400 jog recovery, would a world class runner do in workout.
I'm thinking 8 but want to get others thoughts as well.
I'm just talking about in a normal VO2 max workout. A good solid effort but not extreme or anything.
anywhere from 5 to 14 repeats.
Daniels uses 5-6x1k with 3:00 recovery but at around 3k pace as a key VO2max workout. I find if I do them at my actual 3k pace I can usually only do 5. If you are doing them at 5k pace that would be less than 100% of your vVO2, but if you feel you need to do them at 5k pace to get used to that pace then 8 sounds about right.
all paces are VO2 max workouts, even slow paces.
Also, VO2 max is reached in all races from 800m to 10k
There is nothing special about training at 3000m pace or 5000m pace for maintaining or improving V02 max.
The main purpose of training at 5k pace is to improve or maintain 5k pace. For improving the pace, up to 10 repetitions max maybe once or twice per year with short recovery maybe 60 seconds for maintaining, 3- 5 reps with longer recovery maybe 2 minutes.
10x1000 @ 5k paace with 60 sec rec? puh-leeease
I've done that workout
10x1000 at my 5000 PR pace with 60 seconds recovery, 12 days later I ran my best half marathon, and three weeks after that, my best marathon. I was 40 years old too.
thats a staple workout for my team.
we do 8 to 10 of them with 60 seconds rest averaging 3
minutes each. we'll start at 305 and end closer to 250
(keep in mind this is at 5000 feet so if you are at sea level
it would be a little different)
wellnow wrote:
I've done that workout
10x1000 at my 5000 PR pace with 60 seconds recovery, 12 days later I ran my best half marathon, and three weeks after that, my best marathon. I was 40 years old too.
And I am sure that it correlates perfectly!
wellnow wrote:
I've done that workout
10x1000 at my 5000 PR pace with 60 seconds recovery, 12 days later I ran my best half marathon, and three weeks after that, my best marathon. I was 40 years old too.
You must have been in better shape than your 5k PR pace at that time - cause 10x1000 @ 5k PR w/ 60sec rest is just too much.
You were probably running between your 8k and 10k pace for the fitness you had at the time.
10x1000 w/ 60 sec rest = Threshold workout = 10k-HM pace
5x1000 w/ 2-3min rest = Interval workout = 3k-5k pace
8 are doable but i would keep it to 6 or do 8 with longer rest to avoid overtraining.
If you are doing 10x1000m at 5k pace w/ 60seconds you either are the worst 5k racer in the world, or the best interval runner ever.
There's a difference between what elites CAN do and what they should do.
They could probably do 7-8. But they do 5-6.
Look at Hudson for example, his athletes work towards 5x1k at 5k pace w/ 60sec rest.
wellnow wrote:
all paces are VO2 max workouts, even slow paces.
Also, VO2 max is reached in all races from 800m to 10k
There is nothing special about training at 3000m pace or 5000m pace for maintaining or improving V02 max.
The main purpose of training at 5k pace is to improve or maintain 5k pace. For improving the pace, up to 10 repetitions max maybe once or twice per year with short recovery maybe 60 seconds for maintaining, 3- 5 reps with longer recovery maybe 2 minutes.
While I'm not arguing that there is benifit to running intervals at your 5k pace if your traing for 5k, there is something special about ~3000m pace. Or more specifically, 10-12 minute race pae. This is approximatley 100% vVO2max. Around the 10-12 minute mark is where you see a fall of in the FVO2max vs Running time curve. Not surprisingly if you compare the equivalent performances based on VDOT to the recomended I training paces based on VDOT, they match pretty well for 10 minute long race duration. So I guess if you are an elite than 5k pace is alright, but for average guys closer to 3k pace, and waddlers closer to mile pace. This all can be found in Daniels Chapters 2 and 3 (The physiology chapters that most people probably skip over).
Use this calculator, and enter your 3k time (9:00 for example) and look at the corresponding training intensities below and sure enough, for %vVO2max your 1km interval time is right around your 3k race pace (3:03 if you use 9:00 for 3k time).
http://www.attackpoint.org/trainingpaces.jsp?dist=3000&units=meters&time=00900Actually there is nothing special about 3k pace.
Unless you are training for a 3k, then it's great for creating specific endurance.
If not, then it serves as some sort of support.
V02max....easily measurable therefore became more important that it actually is.
4-6 with 1:30 rest. This will be plenty of work to get a great benefit. Just because you can do more doesn't mean you will get more out of it. Just do enough to get the max benefit.
6 of them with 2 minutes rest just slightly faster than 5k pace. Feels hard, gets you a good sense of pace.
8 of them with 1:00 rest at 10k pace.
curiously wrote:
If you are doing 10x1000m at 5k pace w/ 60seconds you either are the worst 5k racer in the world, or the best interval runner ever.
There's a difference between what elites CAN do and what they should do.
They could probably do 7-8. But they do 5-6.
Look at Hudson for example, his athletes work towards 5x1k at 5k pace w/ 60sec rest.
Perhaps you should explain to those 26.30 runners just wheree they are going wrong in their training.
Gebreselassie doing 10x 1000 in 2.30 that's just way too fast right? He will never race well off that kinda training
wellnow wrote:
Perhaps you should explain to those 26.30 runners just wheree they are going wrong in their training.
Gebreselassie doing 10x 1000 in 2.30 that's just way too fast right? He will never race well off that kinda training
when did he do that? do you have any evidence to support your assertion that this is common practice for world class runners?
i'm sure he did that...
anyways, let's look at stuff that we know elites did or had planned.
Looking at Shaheen's log's from Canova, when he did 1k repeats they were:
7x1k at 2:38 w/ 4 minutes rest.
That's way more rest than the 60sec (even if adjusted for altitude, if it was at altitude, not sure). And the pace is 13:10 pace...significantly slower than his potential 5k best or even his PR.
Another one of his athletes did 10x1000m w/ 1:30 rest in 2:57. He was training for the half marathon. Once again this shows that just because you can do something, you don't need to.
The same athlete did 4x1km in 2:35 with 5-6min rest. Maybe around 5k pace, but once again much longer rest and much less total volume.
Lastly, let's look at Steve Scott's log.
When he did 1000's he did:
10x1000m w/ 500m jog in 2:47
That workout is much slower than 5k pace, and more rest than the 60sec you suggest.
So...ya, 10x1k at 5k pace w/ 60sec rest doesn't seem like it happens too much. And there is a reason for it.
I didn't see him do the session, but it has been reported here several time and you should realize that the top athletes do such sessions as these.
Bekele has reportedly done 8 x 1200 in 2.58 -3.03 before one of his World Record attemps
Km reps in 2.30 are standard fare for the top 1500-10000m runners.
How do you think they race so fast? As an athlete, you are only as good as your training, and you can do much higher quality sessions that you think you can.
It seems to me that there is a lack of awareness amongst American runners and coaches about speed endurance and how and when to apply it. Why did rojo start a thread expressing surprise that Ramzi would do 8 x 1000 in 2.30 with 90 seconds recovery before the Olympics? Was rojo really surprised at this? There were some silly comments on tha thread and some good ones too.
Look at Renato Canova's sessions, his runners train exceptionally hard, but recover very quickly, and you can do this too if you really want to.
Maybe you should read my original post again.